konan theory

[illeatchu.livejournal.com]

that konan is one of peins bodys. and the "pein" isnt the real pein. (well thats kindof a give in...)anyway. your thoughts?

Comments

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

I don't think so. If she were, she wouldn't have to talk to Pein, because he doesn't interact with his other bodies verbally, as they seem to share the same mind. She questions Pein for advice and they seem to have somewhat differing opinions. Plus, she doesn't sport orange-red hair or piercings.

I think Konan is just Pein's childhood friend (and possibly lover/wife) who has been complicit in helping him gather bodies. It'd be kind of lame if she were just another body and not her own person (just my opinion). I think Pein is Nagato, because if you compare Nagato's facial expressions as a child and Pein's, you'll notice they're basically the same.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/423/02/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/09/

Pein's mouth in the first picture is just like Nagato's in the second. They have the same expressions and body language. The real Nagato is probably either in a coma or off in some underground room controlling all the Peins, but I'd be very surprised if Pein were someone besides Nagato, given that they have the same body language, depression, and personality. And how else would the rinnegan be projected into all six bodies, if not from Nagato?

BUUTTT I don't know. You never really know with Kishimoto, do you? It just makes the most sense, to my mind, for Pein to be Nagato and for Konan and Pein to have survived and Yahiko to have died (probably by like, trying to protect Nagato, which is likely why the kid went over the deep end).

One of Yahiko's final moments in the flashbacks was saying he was going to save Nagato somehow. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/05/) Yep, I bet you anything that Yahiko died trying to protect Nagato, and somehow Nagato ended up in his body...and five others.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

I'm with you . also take into account how LIVELY Yahiko used to be compared to now

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Jiraiya said "Nagato, you've changed" and "This guy doesn't seem anything like the kid I trained", but I don't know what Jiraiya was talking about. To me, Pein's personality seems very in line with Nagato's.

Nagato was a very depressed child. Like, probably clinically depressed. He needed to be taken to get treatment, not taught goddamned jutsu (I love how the solution for everything in Naruto is "Teach 'em jutsu!").

If not treated, that kind of depression could absolutely become the sort of apathetic listlessness which Pein seems to exhibit. And there's no doubt in my mind that Pein is clinically or sub-clinically depressed (he calls himself PAIN, makes the sky cry because he's so wangsty, and is often pictured sitting down when he's not fighting--which suggests depressive listlessness). Plus, his overall lack of empathy for others and his detachment? Very in keeping with an extreme case of depression. And who knows what Nagato and Konan suffered after Jiraiya left (Konan hinted something pretty traumatic), so... yeah, I definitely think it's the same kid, just having been pushed over the edge and with no good treatment for his condition.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

I don't know WHY but I got the sudden image of Pain looking at the camera and quoting Rocky Horror Picture Show "even smiling makes my face ache"
off the subject but you know what else I always wondered? how the HELL does one simply take THREE YEARS off away from their village?! without even asking! And weren't they during waring times? Jiraiya's never struck me as a stickler for rules bu DUDE!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

LOL I know, right? That was all pretty crazy. I'm amazed Tsunade didn't come to drag him back.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

well they were still in a team at that point, and she was actually THERE when he was all "think I'm gonna stick around" (as was Orochi) and they just LEFT HIM! WTF how do you let one of your teammates just stay?! "I'm on vacation lolz"
I'm sure it had something to do with the Third being in charge, since well... he probably let them get away with a lot but,,,, yea! helps support the village....play house with 3 (admittedly sad and pathetic and in needs) kids hmmm nice priorities Jiji

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

It's harder to buy from Tsunade. Orochimaru, even back then, seemed like a prick. (And wow, Kishi, way to convince us Oro was once a "good guy" and his friends had no idea he was going to go bad, if in every flashback he's acting like a heartless bastard!) There's probably no real way of justifying it, since it was all very random, but I guess the only thing I can say is perhaps because Konoha was at war, they didn't have time to focus on where Jiraiya may or may not have been.

What I found interesting, though, is that according to the Naruto Wiki, Jiraiya trained Minato and company after he trained Nagato/etc. You could then say Nagato was Jiraiya's original student, and maybe that's why he put such hopes into him. Oh, and that's the other reason I think Pein is Nagato. Nagato was the one Jiraiya specifically put his faith in, the one he believed to be "the destined child"; for Pein to be a perfect villain/counterpart to Naruto (whom Jiraiya now entrusts with the future), he'd need to be Nagato.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

1st paragraph - maybe. of course you don't have to be a nice guy to be loyal to your village but yeaaa Oro...not so much on the compassion, it certainly shows he considers life (other then his own of course) of little value and expendable

2nd-paragraph - yes , yes , and yes. I totally think you're right

[blacknoise.livejournal.com]

I guess I can't argue with the Wiki, but don't Pain and Konan seem to be younger than Minato would have been at this point? They seem to be in their late 20s-early 30s like Kakashi's group, maybe even younger, whereas Minato would be around 40 by now if he were still around... Assuming he was about 25 when he died.

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Oh, it wouldn't surprised me if the Wiki were totally wrong. I considered that, too, because Pein and Kakashi do seem about the same age. Naruto ages are really screwy to me in general. Itachi always gets me so confused with this age business (he killed his family at like, 13, right, and yet Madara is all saying he killed his "lover"? yeah, the hell a 13-year-old Itachi had a lover...). So, yeah. Wouldn't surprise me if the Wiki were just off.

%)

[umaken.livejournal.com]

Where did you find info about "three years"?..
I thought it was about few months.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

I don't think she is being controlled by Pain, but I do wonder if she truely shares his goals or just going along with it because of her emotional attachment to him , Yahiko and Nagato

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting point. It's hard to say for sure, because she seems to regard him as a god, but I don't see any reason to think she doesn't share his goals? She looked pretty gung-ho about trashing Konoha, and when she talked to Jiraiya, she kept saying "we do this" and "we do that". Seems like a them against the world thing to me.

I'm also PRETTY SURE even as kids, Konan had feelings for Nagato (dunno whether they were reciprocated or not). They were together before they met Yahiko, and when Nagato is injured (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/02/), Konan is shown running to his side (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/03/). I seriously believe they're childhood sweethearts.

I don't think Nagato is the only one who is bitter at the world. I think Konan is bitter, too. She seems pretty complicit to me. Maybe we'll know for sure before they both die.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call her gung-ho (since I always equate that with exuberance) but she sure as hell isn't pulling any punches!)

you're right she was saying we a lot.
It be my inner romantic (especially the inner sadistic romantic) that makes me wonder, If Nagato IS the real brain behind Pain, and that body IS Yahiko. Maybe the reason that he uses that body as his main one isn't just because it was his friend but because it will allow Konan to at least, in some little way, still be with the one she loved. The person may be gone but maybe she can at least still see the body moving and "alive". which while not healthy and in itself painful... It's hard to think that we ourselves wouldn't grasp at any little bit that we could of a lost loved one. It would be very similar to Sasori made his parents into puppets adn would make them "hug" him

theories, theories!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. The idea that Konan had some kind of feelings for Yahiko is one I've seen explored in fanfic before, and it's a neat idea. It just really seems to me like Nagato and Konan were closer. In the last image of Jiraiya leaving them, Konan and Nagato are shown standing together and Yahiko is somewhat farther behind them.

In one scene, Yahiko says he's going to get stronger than Nagato, and Konan immediately took up for Nagato's strength (much as she does now when Madara disses on Pein, heh heh). I saw no especial closeness between Konan and Yahiko at all... of course, we don't know what happened after Jiraiya left. If Yahiko is the one she loves, why do all this for Nagato, or be with Nagato? I dunno. She's not just hanging around with that body; I mean, this woman is actually going out and getting MORE dead bodies for her special guy. That seems like some real dedication to me.

I think it'd be interesting if Nagato is the one she loves, and he's doing her in their dead friend's body, and Yahiko is essentially stuck between the two as a body/memory. But maybe that's just twisted of me. I still think Nagato is in a coma and he HAS to use Yahiko's body. XDDD

Re: theories, theories!

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

"If Yahiko is the one she loves, why do all this for Nagato, or be with Nagato?"

hehe I'd honestly forgotten that it was Nagato that she was closer to as a child. But as for the above question. I can see them both doing this FOR Yahiko whom she, they both actually, cared very much for (even if only in a friend relative sort of way). sort of "we do this to end wars that will take people from those they love like Yahiko was taken from us"

I think it'd be interesting if Nagato is the one she loves, and he's doing her in their dead friend's body, and Yahiko is essentially stuck between the two as a body/memory. But maybe that's just twisted of me.
for me I only see this being the case if somehow Nagato is somehow unable to reside in his own body.
Maybe the reason I wonder how she felt about Yahiko is that we almost always see her with the Yahiko body even though they all share the same mind and would therefore all be "nagato" (if it's really him). so why that one body but not the others?

Re: theories, theories!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Hmm, well, I know one thing. All this theorizing is making me really interested to know what the actual canon truth of the matter is. Although it'd be hilarious if we were both way off the mark. :FFFFFFFFF

To be honest with you, I always assumed that Nagato wore Yahiko's body as his primary body as some sort of... slightly macabre way of honouring Yahiko, especially if Yahiko actually sacrificed his life to save Nagato.

This is kind of what I imagine happened:

Nagato: (injured in some debilitating way) I r dying!
Konan: Angst!
Yahiko: z0mg, well, buddy, I SAID I'D SAVE YOU and PAY YOU BACK, so I'll give you my body! [somehow, la la la; I have no fucking idea how this worked, but]
Nagato: z0mg, Yahiko! Yahiko sacrificed his life protecting me! I must now angst and adopt Yahiko's ideals about ending war and stuff and causing so much shock and damage that the wars stop!
Konan: Liek, ttly.

[Edit: Well, maybe not THIS EXACT exchange... I hope it'd be slightly less DUMB than this! O_o]

(Somehow insert all the other body stuff here... not sure how that worked; maybe Madara had something to do with supplying the machinery? He definitely seems to have those two under his thumb SOMEHOW...) And maybe Hanzou had something to do with the tragedy that resulted in Yahiko's death, thus explaining Pein's slaughtering of Hanzou and all his followers.

UHH, now watch me be totally wrong and bass-ackards about all this shit. XDDDDDDDD I PROBABLY AM COMPLETELY RONG, but whatevs.

It's interesting that you say that about Konan mostly interacting with the Yahiko body, because for me, one of my favourite (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/11/) Pein/Konan exchanges (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/12/) occurred in the summoner Pein's body (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/13/). [Yeah, I love Pein/Konan. It's kind of totally my OTP. I feel a bit lame for focusing on them so much when probably, neither character is all THAT essential to the overall plot, but I can't help it; their relationship just has the potential to be so tragic and beautiful and... kinda evil! And the pairing has some really pretty art. :P]

Re: theories, theories!

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

I agree , it makes me so curious now! and eager to see what happens. You also brought up another point that I hadn't considered. I always just assumed that Madara met Pain and Konan after they were already doing the whole "yay I got's me lots o bodies an am gonna rule the world" thing. But now I wonder if that is indeed true, if he has manipulated them from the very start as well . damn so curious!
I always assumed that Nagato wore Yahiko's body as his primary body as some sort of... slightly macabre way of honouring Yahiko, especially if Yahiko actually sacrificed his life to save Nagato.
same here

Re: theories, theories!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Madara -- well, that could be. He may have had nothing to do with their "situation". But I dunno. I mean, Pein obviously really doesn't like Madara. Both Pein and Konan get passively-aggressively snarky with Madara when he talks to them. Madara seems to want to "put Pein into his place" and Konan gets defensive over that.

And yet despite all this hostility, they still serve the guy. So I'm thinking, well, why? Because Madara is JUST THAT POWERFUL? (Kind of a lame answer... I hope there's more to it than this) If Madara knew Pein's "secret", or if M had supplied the body machines himself (and that body machine stuff is just SO BATSHIT MADARA), it'd explain a lot, because he could threaten to somehow destroy the machines/kill Pein if Pein disobeyed him. This would go back to my theory that the Real Nagato is in a coma/out of it somewhere, and Pein/those bodies are a kind of elaborate life support.

Because I keep thinking to myself -- people always ask who or what is Pein. They don't ask WHY DOES PEIN NEED SIX BODIES? Nagato was very powerful, and as Jiraiya pointed out, he was perfectly capable of using all these bad-ass jutsu in his original body. There'd be no need for him to switch to six new ones, unless for some reason he had to. And it's been hinted that Pein has some "secret weakness", which, if discovered, would screw him over. I keep thinking that secret weakness has got to be that his whole six bodies thing is a life support system...

(Again, I may be hilariously WRONG XD)

Re: theories, theories!

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

And it's interesting to see your take on it because mine wasn't so much that he NEEDED six bodies as that was the greatest amount he could inhabit at one time.

and while there are obious advantages to being able to be in six places at once ... hmmmm Maybe all that jutsu awesomeness is to much for one body to handle and has to be spread out over six bodies?

Re: theories, theories!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

It could be something like that. How much power can the human body take, after all? And the original Rinnegan dude was called the "Sage of the Six Paths", so maybe something about the Rinnegan screws up your body and causes you to have to spread out. Perhaps the Sage of the Six Paths had to do something similar -- hence his name. And maybe that's where Madara got the original machinery from, since M would've been around back then and he would've known about this stuff.

[It's a little hard for me to believe Nagato and Konan, two children, designed all this machinery on their own, which is why I tend to assume Madara is involved.]

Re: theories, theories!

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

of course who knows how old they were when they developed the need for that machinery?
the six paths is based off of a religious doctrine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_realms
Kishimoto likes to pull in various themes , which I greatly like, such as religion and classic literature (three sages anyone?)

Re: theories, theories!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

of course who knows how old they were when they developed the need for that machinery?

I considered that, but where would they get the skills/knowledge of such things from?

I'm very eager to see The Truth about all this in canon. It's such a weird situation for Jiraiya to find his students in.

Re: theories, theories!

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

I'm very eager to see The Truth about all this in canon.
same here, it's stuff like that , plus the current invasion and such that makes me eager to see new chapters

chibi Gaara is adorable

Re: theories, theories!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

The Konoha invasion is great fun. I wonder what's going to happen next.

Chibi Gaara thanks you!

Re: theories, theories!

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

"I hope you enjoyed this ltest chapter. Please be aware that I'm going on vacation! I'm goin ta DisneyLand, so long bitches! LOLZ. Love Kishimoto"
Further evidence that he is in fact a sadist

Re: theories, theories!

[utahimelorelei.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes he is.

He shot me in the heart and ran away! That bastard! XD


I'm still sad over Chouza...

Re: theories, theories!

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

He went there with Akatsuki (http://fc10.deviantart.com/fs29/f/2008/062/9/0/So__What_Now__by_Kamden.png).

Re: theories, theories!

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

as someone who lives only 2 hours from Disney land this brings me SOOOOO much joy!
"F*** YEA" LOL
and Kakuzu "how much is this going to cost"
though I would have thought that Kisame would have been hoping for Sea World hehe

[blacknoise.livejournal.com]

I hate to say this, 'cause I'm a big fan of Nagato!Pain (esp. the Yahiko-bodied one) being with Konan romantically, but after having reread those chapters... Rinnegan aside, Nagato and Konan look scarily similar. Like, *related* similar. D:

I mean, the way familial relation is done in manga, it's nearly always the hair and outfit that gives them away (unless they're big like Chouji's family or dressed weird like Shino's family). When Konan's hair is down, and when Nagato's hair is swept out of his eyes... they look like brother and sister. Or at least cousins.


Which REALLY harshes my buzz when I'm trying to ship the two.

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. XD; Yeah. That possibility freaks me out, too, actually. Because Kishi SURPRISES YOU that way sometimes, like with Temari and Kankurou being Gaara's siblings, and THAT wasn't initially revealed, either! I really, really hope Nagato and Konan just look alike because they're from the same area and Yahiko is just some redheaded anomaly. I'd be so disappointed if they turned out to be brother and sister. :P Talk about a hashed buzz INDEED!

They'd have to be an awfully odd brother and sister to be living together in their late 20s/early 30s like a married couple, though.

[fuuma-konan.livejournal.com]

Um... whoah. I never realized that before. D: D: D:
Er... I am really hoping now that this is a village appearance similarity thing and Yahiko is just speshul like that or something.
Because... they are my OTP, dangit! And I do not want to have been shipping incest all this time. D:

[blacknoise.livejournal.com]

I know, right? I'd be distinctly displeased if that's how it ended up going...

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Well, there's hope that they're not related, I think. I mean, Nagato also kinda looks like a mini-Orochimaru in some ways (lol I hate to say it), and I'm pretty sure he's not Oro's secret bastard spawn (OR IS HE, ZOMG?). And hey, just in the black and white, Sasuke and Karin look like siblings, too. Then of course, we see in their actual colours, Karin's hair is nothing like his; it just looks that way. I hope I'm not just in denial. :P

But really, that'd be a bastard thing of Kishi to do, because he has to know most people do take them for a couple, and many actually ship them. And he definitely, imho, makes it seem like they are... a couple. So I'd be rather displeased, too. Until I see it, I'll just assume they're not siblings. D: But whoa. So lame if they are.

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Oh, God. I know. XP They're my OTP, too! And it'd just be so lame if Kishi made them out to be siblings, because they really do act like a 30-year-old married couple (I mean, what siblings behave that way?); according to what I've read, in the actual Japanese, they even speak to one another as a married couple would in the inflections and what not. So if they were Seekret Siblings, it'd be a really dirty trick to pull on everyone.

But there is hope. I mean, Jiraiya didn't say anything about them being related (though would he know?), and lots of characters randomly look alike without being related. Just in the black and white, Sasuke and Karin look alike, and Pein looks like Naruto, too (which threw lots of people into assuming they were related). Well, for now, I'm going to just assume it's because Nagato and Konan are from the same regional area and because Kishi just shades many characters' hair about the same. :F Plz don't kill my OTP, Kishi. PLZ. I already signed up for them on ship_manifesto and everything.