Chuunin - A Naruto Community

Wow. That was like...I dunno. A filler episode. But canon.

Combining Gaara's history with Naruto's growing emo and fixed ALL IN ONE CHAPTER this is amazing.

...maybe now we will get some actual badassness in here?

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aurrai.livejournal.com

Wow. That was like...I dunno. A filler episode. But canon.

MTE. Like… did anything happen? IDGI 8|

LOL@Naruto can't tell a squid from an octopus.

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everindelible.livejournal.com

super weird chap. just the way it was written, IDGI.

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bjorkubus.livejournal.com

Naruto STILL can't tell the difference between a squid and an octopus and I lol'd so hard at Yamato's WTF face. Other than that, it was a pretty blah chapter.

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zelos22.livejournal.com

*just caught up after weeks of not reading and being behind*

well, at least the story doesnt seem as rushed now as it was feeling for a little while there. i guess Kishi realized there was no way in hell it would be a 500-chapter manga so hes taking it as it comes. good, i guess.

i want to know what Kabuto is up to...

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Loved the first half, but the second half was cheesy. The only thought that comforts me is that the line "The Depth of Killerbee's confession..." are not by Kishimoto himself.

And no one mentions the real culprits: The people who sacrifice both the jinchuuriki and the men who have to restrain them when they get out of control, as they don't want to be without bijuu because assumedly they need it to protect themselves against the other villages. (Sacrificing some people in order to ensure peeace... sounds familiar?)

Which makes me wonder about Konoha? How did they fare without jinchuuriki, as they apparently did before the kyuubi's attack at the time of Naruto's birth? They managed not to get attacked by other villages, didn't they? Or did they have jinchuuriki that we don't know about?

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wind-hover.livejournal.com

We also have to consider that Kumo had Yugito - they could easily have let the eight tails go for the two tails.

Yes, I felt it was cheesy too. I think it also highlights the motive of vengeance, and the similarity of all the Jinchuuriki experiences. IIRC, another Jinchuuriki turned out to be the Kage of Kiri?

Without Jinchuuriki, it's quite possible that they could survive, since it's not a guarantee that the Jinchuuriki were usuable as weapons. You have to consider that after Naruto's birth, he wouldn't have been suitable as a weapon until the series began, so I guess its lucky that they had an extended period of peace?

This chapter also makes it sound like the eight tails was quite unstable in the previous container - what makes it so stable in Bee? Why can it work with Bee?

Also, this actually makes the idea of taking the bjuu away sound better. It's like taking nuclear weapons away! There's no mutually self-assured destruction or something.

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wind-hover.livejournal.com

YES I want the badassness soon! I don't think it'll be for a while yet though - we're going to have a chapter (or three) of Naruto being trained, then maybe in the chapter after that we'll get back into the war against the Akatsuki! Hopefully, the sooner the better. :)

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I guess we will learn in one of the next chapters how Killerbee tamed the Hachibi.

I liked the first half of the chapter because in Gaara's story the hypocrisy of the villagers was better hidden. They want to use the bijuu, but they hate the jinchuuriki. (There is however some point in the story of Gaara where Naruto loses his temper and shouts at the villagers for turning Gaara into a jinchuuriki.)

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Yeah, it's become kind of weird now that it's clear you CAN seal the bijuu in objects like jars. There was already the throwaway line about the one-tails being sealed in a teakettle, but now it's quite clear. Before there could have been the angle of 'well, they don't want to create jinchuuriki but they also don't want giant monsters rampaging around', but now it's like...they want weapons more than they want to not abuse little children. Uh-huh.

I'm pretty sure that before the Orochimaru attack and Pain attacking and all of the various problems Konoha has had, Konoha was like THE strongest, wealthiest village, so maybe they didn't need a bijuu because they were already so powerful. Everyone else was trying to catch up by grabbing bijuu, maybe? But they were said to be the strongest village.

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...I would hate it if Killerbee actually tamed the Hachibi. To me, the cool thing about Bee is that he works with the 8-tails in almost a friendship, unlike Naruto who currently either was demanding ("I let you live in here, give me chakra for the rent" of pretimeskip) or denies it altogether (zomg I HURT SAKURA NEVAR AGAIN...and then does a turn around once he realizes Sasuke is Teh Hate Master. Great going, Kishimoto. You've got great consistency here.)

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Well, clearly we now know that every jinchuuriki ever must have an ANGSTY PAST and friends who try to kill them. It does not matter if you have an optimisitic (Naruto and Bee) or pessimistic (Bee) view.

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Well, Kishimoto just WHIZZED by the whole jinchuuriki-angst-bonding-time thing in one chapter, maybe he'll just WHIZZ by the whole training sequence (or leave it for the background and go focus on other things, like. I dunno. The rookie 12. :D)

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This chapter...somehow, the pacing felt weird. Almost like it was rushed at some points? Not sure. Something about the pacing just bothered me, but I can't put my finger on it.

I kind of love Motoi now, though, haha. Although...from his flashback, it seems like clearly the people at fault are a) the people who decided to turn a little kid into a monster-container, and b) the people who did nothing to help Motoi after his father died, thus leaving him to cope in the super-unhealthy way of hating Killerbee. And he seems to have felt guilty for like his entire life after the not-that-serious murder attempt, so...he doesn't seem so bad, actually. Plus his 'murder attempt'...he throws a kunai into a pool of water instead of at Killerbee.

It's actually interesting that Killerbee became the Hachibi when he was already like...how old is he supposed to be there, 5? 8? Not sure, but past infancy/toddlerhood. Which makes loads more sense than baby!kyuubi, for various reasons, but it's also quite interesting. And the saga of Cloud repeatedly destroying their own village with the Hachibi. And yet, they kept doing it...also, if the hachibi jinchuuriki was chosen from the Raikage's relatives...how big a family does he have!?

Naruto running off, thinking about people start out hating jinchuuriki and then love them...that started out somewhat interesting, because, well, that's an interesting theme going on there. What is the appropriate response to the villagers? It's not surprising that Naruto is happy to be accepted and have friends, but at the same time, he WAS mistreated for his entire childhood. Is it really enough that the villagers love him NOW, after he's saved all of them from Pain's attack? Shouldn't there be some remorse there? The situation is more complicated with Gaara, where he was initially mistreated, which lead to him going around killing people, which lead to even more fear of him. Naruto didn't actually hurt anyone as a child.

Actually, Motoi is kind of the best there, because he actually acknowledges that he was ALWAYS wrong about Bee and should apologize. So far, no other character in the series (that I can recall) has shown any regret for mistreating Naruto or Gaara or Killerbee when they were children.

But then Naruto suddenly becomes happy again because of fistbumping? So...is he just cheered up that reconciliation is possible, or does he feel like everything is okay, or what? The ending of the chapter seemed to come out of nowhere.

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themintchick.livejournal.com

Honestly, I don't care. FULL METAL CAME OUT THIS WEEK!! :D

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PSSSSSSSH HECK YEAH

(although T.T for FMA ending soon)

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ly-mizukage.livejournal.com

yeah T^T ONE LAST CHAPTER ;;

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Ah, sorry, my mistake... I agree that one of hte great things about their relationship is that they cooperate (with the Hachibi often being more reflective and grown-up than Killerbee) and not that Killerbee has tamed the Hachibi.

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I haven't thought about the question of sealing monsters in jars, but you are right of course. And, in answer to your question below, what would be the right answer to the villagers: Demand that all the bijuu are put into jars and teapots and whatever, but no longer in children.

Konoha... What I thought: Why did not one in Kumo come to the conclusion: If Konoha can do without a bijuu, so can we!

Edited Date: 2010-05-13 07:43 pm (UTC)

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Ah, but Killerbee was smiling from the beginning, and so he was worthy of being loved from the beginning.

The second half was rushed imo. There was no drama or conflict between Killerbee and Motoi in the second half, but Killerbee just saved him and laughed it away after saving Motoi. It all seemed very easy and more about the message than the story.

Being five years or eight, when one is able to understand what is done, but not yet able to question the grown-ups. An interesting situation, but nothing is done about it.

The previous jinchuuriki looks very young, I think.

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I was assuming that Cloud wanted a jinchuuriki to a) compete with other villages that had one, and b) compete with the powerful Konoha. Konoha was more powerful than everyone else, so possibly the villages decided to make up the difference with jinchuuriki. Although considering how Cloud apparently kept getting destroyed, that seems like the worst strategy ever.

Now that the Hachibi, a bijuu that seems self-aware and not compulsively destructive, there's kind of a different problem...what ARE they, exactly? I mean, we're told the kyuubi is a ball of hatred, but the Hachibi is apparently no longer destructive. So...are the bijuu like...people, or chakra blobs, or what?

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so possibly the villages decided to make up the difference with jinchuuriki.

Ah, yes, like the NATO trying to make up for the SU's superiority in terms of conventional weapons by sticking to its first strike doctrine...

Maybe the kyuubi was the original juubi's hatred, while the hachibi was its intelligence?

(Sorry, I am not really able to be serious today.)

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Ah, but Killerbee was smiling from the beginning, and so he was worthy of being loved from the beginning.

...that's...pretty creepy, and not something I had thought of. Hopefully that's not the intended implication, though, because...yeah, that's pretty creepy.

Well, Motoi and Killerbee's conflict was 30 years ago, so...maybe Killerbee already got over it. Although just from a writing point of view, it's weird to stick it in there just to resolve it in one chapter. I don't think that's a very good use of a character's backstory. Well, maybe there'll be more to it next chapter.

Actually, with Killerbee's age, what I was thinking was...with Naruto, since he was literally just born when the kyuubi was sealed, he was ALWAYS the kyuubi to the villagers. But Killerbee was living in the village, was the Raikage's brother, and had friends, and THEN got the Hachibi. So it's a bit of a different situation: with Naruto, there's the angle of how to treat a person with this bizarre issue, and with Killerbee, there's the angle of him BECOMING different after people already knew him. So in Killerbee's case, people would have to BEGIN mistreating him, whereas Naruto was mistreated from the beginning--that's an interesting difference between the characters. Although, it might not be brought up in-story at all. It seems interesting to me, though.

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Maybe the kyuubi was the original juubi's hatred, while the hachibi was its intelligence?

Oh...that's an interesting thought. It could be kind of cool if the different bijuu were various parts of the original juubi.

Ah, yes, like the NATO trying to make up for the SU's superiority in terms of conventional weapons by sticking to its first strike doctrine...

Well, yes, I'm not saying it's actually a good strategy. ^_^;;;

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It would be interesting if there was like...one village that treated the jinchuuriki REALLY NICELY right from the start so the person wouldn't betray them and, y'know, use the giant superweapon in their stomach on the village. I guess not, though...

From:

themintchick.livejournal.com

I'm so excited yet so bummed it's ending. It will be so bittersweet.

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Well, Motoi and Killerbee's conflict was 30 years ago, so...maybe Killerbee already got over it. Although just from a writing point of view, it's weird to stick it in there just to resolve it in one chapter. I don't think that's a very good use of a character's backstory. Well, maybe there'll be more to it next chapter.

That makes sense, actually, at least to me. It's possible to get over such a wrong if you know that the person who wanted to commit it a) was a child and b) was in emotional trouble and not knowing what he did and c) if no actual harm was caused and d) there's no danger of another attempt at assassination. (Actually Naruto also never bore any grudge against Sasuke. But in Naruto's case I am no longer sure if this is healthy.)

I still put my hope in the fact that the lines on the last page were not written by Kishimoto. Otherwise, it would be all about compassion and forgiveness on a level that's far above normal human beings, and also not advisable for ordinary human beings.

Killerbee's age: That's an aspect I haven't thought of. I saw it more from Killerbee's point of view, not from the POV of the villagers: turning a cheerful child into a jinchuuriki and then slowly getting more and more distrusting, even though he did his best not to change in character.

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(oh wow, I meant to write "pessimistic (Gaara)" ...oh well, they all happen to end up angsty anyway >>

Well, there was also the 2-tails, and we've never seen her past (yet). She was also for the Cloud and seemed to be loyal to it, iirc. However, it would be odd to be nice to the 2-tails and mean to the 8-tails, when in Sand they were all terrified of a 1-tail. Either the Sand are all wusses (har har) or the Cloud treated the 2-tails the same basic way with the 8-tails -- fear, hate, and need.

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On the one hand, I am like Bee's biggest fanboy ever. Seeing his backstory is something I'm interested in.

But really, this IS a pretty lame chapter. It's kind of interesting how it wasn't just a retread of Gaara's past, but at the same time we haven't seen BEE'S side of the story yet. In my own opinion, what I'm hoping for this chapter to be is that it's a big trick: it's goal is to make us, and Naruto, believe that if you just forgive and roll with the punches, you too can be awesome and master your jinchuuriki in no time flat! And then later on, it's going to show Bee's side of the story and what he thinks about his own past, and find out that it's not all roses and harmony and gorilla-fistbumping for him.

Buuuut I also have a sinking suspicion that Kishi is just building up Bee as this wonderful and lovable guy who is so super-awesome and everyone likes him just to wring some drama out of his eventual death at the hands of Akatsuki, because only Naruto is allowed to be so superspecial as to have a Jinchuuriki he can control.

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Otherwise, it would be all about compassion and forgiveness that's far above normal human beings

There is the increasingly likely possibility that that's exactly what Kishimoto is going for: that Bee is, and always has been, of a mentality that is WAY beyond ordinary human beings. That he is incapable of doing anything BUT smiling and always carrying on, because he honestly and truly sees no reason NOT to smile. A kind of savant-mentality, if you will. It may be the explanation as for why he's always being so airheaded and doing things without thinking through the consequences: he honestly, truly doesn't even consider the fact there might even BE consequences for his actions.

Well, that may not sound very realistic but on the other hand, someone managing to tame a raging tailed beast seems to require a very special kind of mindset.

Still, I'm waiting to make any actual judgment calls about this until we actually see Bees side of the story. It may be that he does carry resentment, or that he's just so incredibly detached from his fellow ninja that it just LOOKS like he's forgiving when he's really just apathetic to what they think of him. Also, I want to see some of Yugito's backstory too! He can't just skip over her if he's going to talk about Bee, there being two Jinchuuriki in the same village HAS to mean they interacted and bonded at some level, right?

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There is the increasingly likely possibility that that's exactly what Kishimoto is going for:

that's what I fear too, and I also fear that this is presented to us as an ideal. A few days ago someone wrote in a rant that people take the manga too seriously and that they should keep in mind that it's a story for children - but actually I take it seriously as a story for children, and this saintly ideal worries me. Children should be taught to be responsible grown-ups, no saint - if they then decide that they want to be saints too it's okay.

Savant-mentality? What do you mean by this? I looked up savant, and it seems to mean scholar or expert...

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Ah, my apologies- it seems I used a word which I thought I knew what it meant, but it turns out what I thought was wrong XD

What I meant was more along the lines of an "idiot savant", that is, according to Dictionary.com, "a mentally defective person with an exceptional skill or talent in a special field, as a highly developed ability to play music or to solve complex mathematical problems mentally at great speed". That is, Bee is essentially not even AWARE of what is going on around him and doesn't actually care: so while he's in fact incredibly skilled at controlling the Eighttails he's also completely and utterly BLIND to other things going on around him. People hating him? He never even knew, or cared, what they thought about him: he just wanted to have fun and do whatever felt fun at the time! People might get upset if he leaves the village without assuring them that he's still alive? He never even thought of that possibility, but just did whatever he felt like doing at the moment.

Basically, that he's mentally incapable of seeing the consequences of his actions, but his impressive fighting skills lead everyone to overlook and ignore this. It's sure not what I'm HOPING is the real reason behind his actions, but I half fear that this is what Kishimoto is going to present as the real reason.

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Thanks for clarifying! Actually I'm quite sure that he's more aware of things going on around him than he pretends to be. I don't know why he's playing the clown, but I think it's only a mask. Maybe he's able to forgive Motoi easily because he does not take his attempt to kill him seriously, but I think that this is even a rational position. My impression is that he sees deeper than the political troubles of the time. At the end of chapter 419 we heard him speculating about a new era. (Or was it again the Hachibi?)

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Ha ha, that was actually the Hachibi saying that stuff about a new era. While I would like you to be right however, and while I hold out hope that's what Kishimoto is building up to... well, after Pains conversion to the side of good by fanfic, I'm not exactly holding my breath for intelligent writing.

From:

3headed.livejournal.com

In my own opinion, what I'm hoping for this chapter to be is that it's a big trick: it's goal is to make us, and Naruto, believe that if you just forgive and roll with the punches, you too can be awesome and master your jinchuuriki in no time flat!

I'm hoping for this, too (though I have little hope). The message I got from this chapter was, no matter how shitty people treat you, just keep smiling and in the end everybody will love you. So if you're a bad jinchuuriki and don't have the strength to just overlook all the bad things, it's all your fault if you turn out into a monster? Is anybody ever blaming the villagers?
The chapter had a lot of déja-vu qualities for me. Two friends, nice guy and troubled avenger guy both with tragic childhoods, turn into enemies? Where have I seen this before, Sarutobi/Danzou, Jiraya/Orochimaru, and of course Naruto/Sasuke (even the haircolours are matching again)?

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Is anybody ever blaming the villagers?

Yes, oh yes this. This is what I want to see, a more nuanced description of the villagers guilt and how deeply their "adoration" of the jinchuuriki actually extends. If Kishi really means that all the fear and resentment the villages had for their jinchuuriki can just up and disappear in a flash and all the jinchuuriki can just... accept that and go "hey awesome everyone loves me now no more worries ever ALL SUNNY DAYS FROM HERE ON OUT".

Bee's behaviour here is... well, as I said before in this post, it's bordering on idiot savant-like behaviour. That would actually be one heck of a twist: if it turns out that the reason Bee managed to master the Eight-tails but is apparently incapable of grasping that people dislike him or that he should ever do anything but smile, is because he's actually mentally disabled: he CAN'T do anything but smile: it's just not in him to feel anything else. Because at this rate, that seems like the only plausible explanation for how he can manage to keep it all together and do all the things he's done so far. Now, I would love for Kishi to surprise me on this, but man... Pain. That's all I'm saying.

Also, I didn't even NOTICE that "two friends fighting but here they're reunited" thing. If that's what Kishi was going for, show that old friends CAN get together even if they've fought in the past, man... this was a REALLY cheap way of doing it.

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