a little debate maybe?

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

Hello people,

I have something on my mind since a long time.

To explain it, i have to begin that i'm a huge Neji fan (and a ShikamaruNeji obssessive fangirl...hm~) and well i'm also a fanartist and most of my fanart are centered on Shikamaru and Neji. (if by any chance, it interest you, you can see it all on the community shikaneji -> my post listed by tag)

About Neji, i like drawing him his forehead naked. But i never know what to draw about his seal. I know that the swatiska is at first a bouddhist symbol and all but i'm not sure i'm really confortable with it because of that stupid nazi thing. On the other hand, i think that the simplified version of the anime is good but at the same time it losts all the deeping meaning of the symbol that i found pretty interesting when reading the manga along with the explication.

As i don't frequent a lot of community i was never able to discuss about it. It may sounds a bit stupid but i would like to have your opinion and i thought it may be a little interesting. (and i want to talk oh oh~)
So, what YOU do you think about it? Do you think that Kishimoto sensei should have used another symbol? or you don't care? And why?
I don't say i will decide on what to draw with your opinion but i really think it can be interesting to have different view.


(i was a bit perplexed...did i have to put the tags? Because on the latest comment, i see no tags so i don't know is it the poster who have to put it? the moderator? or we don't care anymore? I'm just a newbie on this community, please excuse me for this questions which may sound a bit idiotic.)

Comments

[zamkenobi.livejournal.com]

I really don't have a problem with it or people drawing it. An explanation might be good just so people don't jump to conclusions (even though I'm sure many will anyway).

I don't think he should have chosen a less controversial symbol. I just think people should wait on an explanation before going berserk (which I have seen with fanart where people use Neji's original forehead symbol). It's really not that big of a deal.

[vescas.livejournal.com]

don't care... Kishimoto didn't put it there for any type of nazi/white power tribute. Neji is his original character and should be respected as such, just the way he is drawn. the edits that Viz has done to the manga and the anime are disrespectful in my mind, especially to the manga since we can't get an uncut version unless we download the scanlations. They cut Neji's image and several other images that they thought were too controversial for the american public and their speshul snowflakes.

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

it's true.
but weird, in France, the editor cut nothing in the manga. They just put an explanation at the end of the volume where the seal appeared for the first time telling the readers that it isn't in any case link to the nazi symbole and explains its significations.
I prefer this way at least. =/

[vescas.livejournal.com]

it is a better way. Also, a parent needs to be able to tell their child the thruth about things, not helping them to avoid it.

Yes, Little Jimmy. Many people think that symbol is bad because a very sick man used it to represent what he thought was right, but it was actually very wrong, and he killed a lot of people. You shouldn't use that symbol for meaningless things because it does still make many people sad.

Curse that man and others for their raping of symbols and their true meanings to the point where they can't be used anymore.

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

yes, when i think about it, i think the same because behind the symbol he choose there is a good explanation. And maybe it's also a symbol who have less impact in orient on the case of nazy symbol (not sure i'm understandable.)
well i was just thinking about it, i like to talk ahah.

btw your avatar is beyond cuteness!

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

yes, it's really a sad thing. u_u

I don't know in America but in our school we have a lot lot lot of lessons about it so well...
plus it's always a difficult subject to deal with...not very proud ahah.

but well i'm a bit off topic. =3

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

ahah, it's nice to hear your point of view as i don't know if i deal well or not with it. =D

[sanee-ftw.livejournal.com]

Like marley said above, I prefer using the symbol in the American anime, but I don't support the needless censorship this VIZ media is employing.
Like shini said, in the French version of the manga they were able to explain the symbol, so they should be able to do the same in the American version.

But, I am uncomfortable with the swastika, or anything that looks like it, so....

[kitty5150.livejournal.com]

I'm fine with the original symbol. It was around long before Hitler - long before Germany - and I think it's silly that some westerners can't look beyond one group of people choosing to use it. Perhaps because so many are unfamiliar with what it actually symbolizes? I mean, you've got an image that has been around since the Neolithic period and because one group of mondo-asshats uses it now it's off-limits?. Seems silly.

Horrible, horrible things have been done by people using the cross as a symbol, and people aren't wigged by it.

[eli-artemisia.livejournal.com]

Horrible, horrible things have been done by people using the cross as a symbol, and people aren't wigged by it.

Well, some people are, but valid point nonetheless!

[pyro-dark-angel.livejournal.com]

Being a Hindu, I have no problem with Kishimoto's use of the swastika as it is a sacred symbol. Only when I see a swastika orientated at 45 degrees I think of the Nazis. And people forget even the meaning of the word swastika. It means luck.

But the seal on Neji's forehead is like the decorated swastika used in Hindu ceremonies. I don't see the stigma attached to that. And the swastika the Nazi's used are opposite facing spikes as well, so as long as someone knows what the version the Nazis used look like, they don't need to feel uncomfortable about it.

[pyro-dark-angel.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you! Just because of the stigma attached to the Nazi version of the symbol, people tend to avoid it at all costs, without even referencing the religious versions. And looking carefully enough, the Nazi version is very different to the one used in the manga. The spokes are facing the opposite direction as well as the orientation of the entire symbol!

[lovechild.livejournal.com]

Okay, let me clear something up~

VIZ only changes Neji's symbol in the publications of their magazine, Shonen Jump. The manji remains untouched in the graphic novels but they add a little explanation at the bottom. With the animated version of NARUTO, the manji wasn't censored in the English dub for there was no manji to censor. The animators in Japan had made the decision to give Neji an "x" symbol instead of using the manji.

Another victim of this change would be Portgas D. Ace of ONE PIECE. If you're not familiar with ONE PIECE, Ace has a tattoo on his back of the Whitebeard Pirates symbol (http://www.gumgum.org/images/39t.gif) which includes the manji. Just like Neji's manji, VIZ changed it for Shonen Jump but kept it the same in the graphic novels with a little insert regarding the manji. The animators of ONE PIECE also made changes to the Whitebeard symbol by giving it a crossbones (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/23/Whitebeardflag.jpg) design instead of using the manji.

Personally, I have no issue with the use of the manji, but then again it only takes one ignorant twat to spoil everything.

[putana.livejournal.com]

People who don't know anything about the swastika tend to view it the same way whichever way it is rotated which is rather interesting.

Personally, because I looked into the history of the swastika ages ago I've mostly ridden myself of the knee-jerk reaction most people have to the image (the swastika itself, the red-white flag with the inverted swastika still stays). Almost like trying to get the image back from Nazi-connotations. A difficult task to do, but oh well.

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

i think that explanation is always better than a simple censorship. =/

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

well it's a true fact.
In fact, maybe that if we're still uncomfortable with it it's maybe only because there isn't much time which flew since the use of this symbol by the nazi.

ahahah, the cross...it's another symbol i don't like XD...but for other reasons.

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

yes, finally i draw as i feel the need but it's something i wanted to know for what the others think. plus as the community is not a french one and there is a lot of american people, it's a bit more interesting as we don't have exactly the same passive towards it.

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

it's true that the seal Neji has is different than the swatiska used by the Nazi but well not a lot of people seems to know this. My mother is fond of Hindu cultures so she explained me when i was younger but few people know (i think) that the symbole of the Nazi is stolen by an ancient culture.

[shinidanie.livejournal.com]

Oh, They released the Shonen Jump in America? In France, it's directly the manga which is released. But thanks for the information, it's interesting to know.
and for the Anime, yes i'm sure it's the japanese creator who did the change.

I know One piece but not enough for knowing it has the same issue.

thanks for the information. *3*

[icelightning.livejournal.com]

It was the same X in the original Japanese anime--it was altered before VIZ even got the US rights. Although I suspect VIZ would have altered it if it had remained the swastika.

[icelightning.livejournal.com]

It was the same X in the original Japanese anime--it was altered before VIZ even got the US rights. Although I suspect VIZ would have altered it if it had remained the swastika, like they did in the manga. :| So your complaint remains valid.

Too much stigma attached to the symbol right now, because teachers fail to tell their students where the swastika came from, how it was stolen, and other information. :| Seriously, if France was able to just put in a blurb, then the US should have been able to as well.

[icelightning.livejournal.com]

Yup, it was the Japanese Animation Studio that did it. It's that way on my fansubs.

[lovechild.livejournal.com]

No problem. ♥