Inquiry

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

Ok.
So.
There was at one point in the not-so distant past in Naruto-verse, an inter-village, inter-country shinobi war, right?
It was in this war that Tsunade lost her little brother, decided that all teams needed a medic with them, met and then subsequently lost Dan.
I'm assuming that Sarutobi was the Hokage at that point, and if I recall rightly, he was the only Hokage, correct? The Yondaime hadn't yet been installed in the office, as far as I could tell... So when did the Fourth become the Fourth, as such?
And at what point did Orochimaru leave Konoha? It was obviously after the Yondaime was advanced and I think it was before the Kyuubi attack, but how much time had passed between the end of the shinobi wars and then?


I'm just all tangled up in my Naruto history, which makes fic-writing hard. Anyone care to clarify in great detail?

Comments

[unikorn.livejournal.com]

Maybe you could work it out going by Kakashis current age and his age of becoming a Jounin in the Kakashi Gaiden arc... as Yondy was his teacher then. But I'm assuming it would have been soon after this point than Yondy became Hokage, because you gotta fit Narutos birth & having Kyubi sealed into him and growing up to current age (in part 1) between those points too.

I hope that made sense O_O

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, the Sannin have all been gone long enough that the younger generation only has the vaguest knowledge of them (Tsunade was the only mentioned before she showed up).

So lets do some math here. The war was still going on when Kakashi was a kid. I'm pretty certain he's 12ish in Kakashi Gaiden, making it sixteen years before the series, however Yondy wasn't actually the Hokage at that point. Orochimaru was DEFINITELY gone before the Kyuubi attack 12 years before the beginning of the series, so...

... that leaves a four year period between the events of Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack for Orochimaru to have left. I don't think it's possible to narrow it down any further. o__O

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

Also, I'm assuming that the Fourth proved himself in the war, thus became Hokage at the end of it and when both Kakashi and Rin had advanced to Jounin. Which was most likely very shortly after Kakashi Gaiden.

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

I am dense, 'cause I'd completely forgotten about the Kakashi Gaiden as a measuring stick.

Still, the times don't seem to jive right. I mean, Anko's HOW old? And she had to be a decent enough age-- say, 7-12-- for Orochimaru to be training her, and...
Maybe I'm confusing myself. Maybe I should shut up and just write and figure things out as I go.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

She's about Kakashi's age, so I'd say it works out. Either way, Kishimoto's been known to fuck stuff like that up before, so I'd say you shouldn't worry about it TOO much. Obviously, it's not like anyone in the fandom's going to call you on it or anything.

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

True. It just was nagging at me as I was writing, so I figured that maybe I was just missing something key and that other people would enlighten me.

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

Actually, to clarify what I was really asking, I suppose--
I am trying to figure out how much of Orochimaru's weirdness was sculpted/aggravated by the conditions of war and how soon after it he left. I mean, onstensibly, he leaves 'cause he's pissed at Sarutobi not picking him for Hokage...but the dude's pretty broken before then, it seems. That might have been the trigger, but my understanding is that Orochimaru was already working on forbidden stuff before that point.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

I think Orochimaru probably just had one of those personalities prone to snap either way, so the war didn't help too much. None of the Sannin are what you'd call emotionally stable. Tsunade honestly does the best, but she's also the only one who's been shown so far with a family.

Hmmm, that an interesting concept to explore. XD Well, an extra bit of random information: it's never been explicitly stated, but I'm pretty certain that during the war they graduated kids at a MUCH younger age. All of the Sannin became genin at the age of six, which- considering what a "dunce" Jiraiya apparently was during his younger years- probably can't be attributed to their "genius".

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

Well, anyway. Thank you muchly for the assist! *pokes Word a few times cautiously*

[anarexic-cyborg.livejournal.com]

I thought that oro left the village because the 3rd and some ninjas broke into one of his hideouts and found him doing forbidden jutsu's.

And thats the time the 3rd regrets not killing oro then. I think we see this when the 3rd and oro a fighting on the roof in a flash back?

Does anyone else remember that?

If thats the case, then Im going to assume that the 3rd was still hokage and that oro left before the the 4th was appointed.

[doomsdayblaze.livejournal.com]

Yup. That was the breaking point. We were also shown Jiraiya going after Orochi somewhere around episode 133/134, and utterly failing at bringing him back.

[icefalcon.livejournal.com]

Hee. I was arguing about this last night. It started out as an idle 'ANBU!Tsunade would be hot.' and led to 'she wouldn't have had time to be ANBU,' which led into a timeline discussion. Damn Kishimoto, release a timeline! Or at least timeskip stats.

Yondaime wasn't Hokage in Kakashi Gaiden, which was 16 years before where the manga is currently at - based on the fact that Kakashi is now 29, and was made jounin at 13. He can't have been Hokage for very long, considering the kyuubi attack was a year or two later.

Personally, I think Orochimaru left before Yondaime was actually chosen. Sarutobi did pass him over for Hokage, but for his lack of empathy rather than because he had Yondaime in mind.

Also, I don't think the war that Tsunade lost Dan in was the same that Kakashi Gaiden is in. I think that's earlier. That's my opinion though - they describe it as the 'Great Shinobi Wars' so there were most likely a succession of wars one after the other and nitpicking which one is pointless. XD

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Orochimaru's timeline is a total mystery. :D

At some point after (presumably) he was passed over for the role of Hokage, installing the fourth (at another unspecified point) he joined Akatsuki. I assume. He may have already been a member of Akatsuki when he was passed over. How old is Akatsuki? We don't know really. And at some point (possibly before, possibly after) killing his entire family, Itachi joined Akatsuki too.

And then Orochimaru left Akatsuki, at another unspecified time (but between Sasuke's 7th and 12th year roughly - for by the time of the main character's chuunin exams, Orochimaru sama has left Akatsuki and has the whole Sound project up and running)...

The best estimate I can give would be based on trying to figure Tsunade's age during the wars; the last databook (pre-time skip) puts her at 51, so she's now 54. It gives her beloved Dan's age (when he died, presumably) as 27. If Tsunade was the same age or a few years younger than Dan, that puts the wars very roughly 30 years in the past. If we widen the age gap between them a lot, it's roughly 30/40 years in the past, a long time before the kyuubi attack roughly 15/16 years ago. Orochimaru is the same age as Tsunade.

(It also hints - interesting for me at least - that if Chiyo sama is Tsunade's opponant in these wars and Sasori is a small child, it puts his age roughly between late thirties and early forties too).

[rainbowlasers.livejournal.com]

Well, Orochimaru left the Akatsuki seven years ago pre-timeskip. which means he had no reason to be in the Akatsuki at the same time as Itachi, who went in five years ago.

Kishimoto's timeline is like JKR's math.

FAILS.