[Essay like rant thing] Uchiha Sasuke

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

Today, after reading chapter 308, I got to thinking about Sasuke.  He's always been an o.k. kid, just a bit pissy, just a bit obsessive with his goals.  But as I read the chapter I realized something.

I really like Sasuke as a bad guy.

To me, he seems to fit better as a bad guy. Think about it. Before he was always frustrated, pissy, and he seriously had freak out moments when things happened that he couldn't handle.  For example, when he first met Orochimaru and he couldn't move, frozen in fear, and he had to watch Naruto get the crap beat out of him then had to have Sakura yell at him before he made a move.  I mean, he talked a lot about Naruto being a big chicken, but the kid seriously would freeze up if he got scared.  Now he's all calm and cool and shit, and I like him being Naruto's greatest enemy. It's the best friend rivalry taken to the next level, and let's face it, when Sasuke left I was like, "All right, finally."  I expected him to leave, he was just too dedicated to killing Itachi.  And sadly, he was right, the village and his bonds with his friends was holding him back, he really is stronger now.   

Yes, friendship can make you stronger (it certainly does for Naruto), but Sasuke is different.  I mean I still remember when he met Itachi again and it was like, "All right, 80+ episodes of angst, let's go!"  Then he was beaten in like 10 seconds.  I'm sorry, if I were Sasuke, and that happened to me... I'd be pissed and I would leave too.  I'd think to myself, "What the hell have I been doing all this time?  What have I gained?  I have friends, yes, but that dude just wiped the floor with me.  I've gotten nowhere!"  He's going about it all the wrong way, yes, but at the same time anime (and media in general) always gives the lesson of revenge being pretty pointless, because what will you do afterwards?  I think Sasuke picking the path he did is that lesson taken to the extreme.  You want revenge so badly you have left your friends, nearly killed one of them, left your home, abadoned everything to go off with the ultimate evil, then you will get your revenge, then what?  You'll be empty, and you'll have no one to go back to (except he'll have Naruto... Naruto will chase him forever  -_-)

Sasuke is the kid that doesn't fit in the village, not Naruto. Sasuke is the one who needed to leave, he was too stuck on what he wanted and honestly, he wasn't going to get it from staying at the village.  It's ironic, the village praised him but in all honesty he didn't really belong.  The village bashed Naruto and he's the kid who fits in the village, the one who loves it and will protect it no matter what. 

Is Sasuke really a bad guy?  I think of bad guy as like, OROCHIMARU!  Sasuke is just getting power, granted, it's not in a good way, but still.  And technically, he's not going after Naruto to kill him, Naruto keeps going after Sasuke and won't leave him alone.  I mean, at any time has Sasuke turned around, run back to Konoha to kill Naruto?  Naruto chases him, Sasuke runs away, Sasuke finally stops and is like, "All right, I'm going to kill you now."  I mean, has Sasuke ever stopped in his quest for power and said, "Oh damn, gotta go kill that Naruto kid now?"  Naruto chases him, pushes him, backs him into a corner then he's like, "All right... that's it."  Two theories about Sasuke wanting to kill Naruto:

1.  When you're backed into a corner and you don't want to be, you attack.

2.  To get rid of his greatest obsticle: his best friend, the person who is closest to him (yaoi sense or not), because you can only run away for so long.  And let's face it, Naruto is the series that is full of kids who, if something gets in their way, they get rid of it, fight it, whatever.  Naruto is in Sasuke's way.  I am not defending Sasuke wanting to kill Naruto at all, but look at the series, these are shinobi.  It would feel weird if Sasuke didn't fight back and I'm sorry, if Naruto gave that friendship speech and Sasuke was like, "O.K.," the series would not be nearly as interesting (we joke about Naruto's Sailor Moon attack, it would actually suck if it did work on Sasuke). 

At the same time, interestingly enough, Sasuke is in Naruto's way.  Sasuke said it himself, "I thought you had a dream of becoming Hokage."  At first I thought Naruto completely abadoned his dream for Sasuke, but I see it differently now.  Again, Naruto said it best, "What kind of leader would I be if I couldn't save a friend?"  Naruto has to save Sasuke, he has to make things right.  In that sense all this chasing makes sense, that's just the type of person Naruto is.  And with this chapter this notion hit stronger for me because he rejected Kyubi's powers.  Sure, he's used it before, but if he turned to someone else to bring back Sasuke then that kind of cheapens it.  He wants to save Sasuke, he, himself, Uzumaki Naruto.  And technically, in the Valley of the End, he used Kyubi at the very last possible second (he was nearly dead).  And I actually don't want Naruto to use Kyubi, simply because that is always the last resort and it's like, "Come on, you had to had learned something over those 2+ years besides the whole Kyubi thing." I miss the Naruto that used his own tricks and Kyubi was either a) an accident or b) the very last thing left to do, not the first thing to do.  Let Sasuke and Naruto fight for real, without Kyubi, without cursed seals (though granted I'm sure it'll get that far later).  I want Naruto to be able to show Sasuke that he can take him on.

So what is my point in all of this?  I have no idea.  I just had to get the rant out of my system.  But actually, let me think, here we go I'm about to sound mean with the first one:

1.  Part of me doesn't want Naruto to succeed in bringing Sasuke back, at least not so easily.  It would be great for Sasuke to return and for things to go back to normal, but let's face it, team 7 has changed and it will not go back to normal again without some serious work.  I don't think Sasuke is going to die or anything dramatic like that, but I do think that bringing him back is going to take some serious blood, sweat, and tears.  I think Naruto and Sakura (mostly Naruto, see below for my thoughts on Sakura) need to understand that this is not the same Sasuke, that them finding him isn't going to have him turn around and go, "Hey, thanks for coming to get me.  Let's go home."  Of course he's going to fight back.  I was actually quite impressed with Kishimoto for not having Naruto succeed the first time, it's so easy to have the happy go lucky ending of Sasuke learning his lesson, friendship is key, let's go back home, ta da the end. 

2.  What better person to bring him back than Naruto, who won't give up on him?  I also think that Naruto would be one of the few to accept this new Sasuke, because let's face it if Naruto brings him back the village is going to most likely diss the boy.  He left, he went to Orochimaru, he turned his back on them.  It'll take a while for the village to forgive him.  And Sasuke is totally different now, he's not the same Uchiha prodigy, and yaoi sense or not, he'll need Naruto to be that person who doesn't care how much he's changed.  Of course, Naruto will have to accept the fact that things have changed, I'm not sure he quite gets it yet.  Oh yeah, part of him got it when Sasuke drew that sword, but he still has this great ideal of bringing Sasuke back home and I think, sadly, he's going to have to get the crap beat out of him again to realize that Sasuke isn't going to just follow him back, it'll take a shitload of work. 

3.  I do think Sakura gets it.  I think she understands that this is not the same Sasuke, but I think she had the advantage over Naruto because she did know about the curse and Orochimaru and all that way before Naruto did, so she knew Sasuke was changing.  Naruto just kinda found out right when Sasuke left, so of course he still has the fantasy of bringing Sasuke home and it being like old times.  He was kept in the dark for like, how many manga chapters/anime episodes?  Quite a few people in the village knew about the curse before Naruto (Team 10 saw it when Sasuke snapped in the woods and Sakura hugged him, so did Neji Lee and TenTen.  The sand siblings also got to see it when Sasuke fought Gaara in the woods).  You know, this is kinda ironic, it took Naruto forever to learn about the curse, just like it took Sasuke forever to realize the Kyubi thing (though how he didn't know is beyond me... but it's like, neither one really knew about their "dark" sides until oh so very late in life).

Gyaaaaaaaaaaaaaah super long rant over!  Jeez!

Comments

[jade-fragment.livejournal.com]

I'd have to say I totally agree with you on not believing that Naruto's going to succeed this time, either. The timing just doesn't feel right. I mean yeah, ecstaticness all around at *finally* seeing Sasuke again, but I just don't feel another huge epic battle coming again. There is more that has to go on here. Naruto is likely going to get beaten again.

I am very intrigued with Sasuke appearing where the Kyuubi is. I like that twist and I can't wait to see where it goes. I love how Kishimoto can always bring up new things to keep you guessing. All various plot-holes aside, ten points for him for the week.

Yay Chibi! I just love you *huggles* you always bring up the best ideas. ^^

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

Awwwwww, love ya too :)

Yes yes, Sasuke appearing like that was just, whoa. I told someone, the manga hasn't surprised me in a long time (not like, majorly) but when that happened I was like, "WHOA! Holy shit! How'd you get there?" How creepy is that that your enemy can get INSIDE YOUR HEAD! That's just... yeah.

And yeah, you're right, for some reason it doesn't feel like Valley of the End part 2, it just feels like... the Reunion, and... that's it. Maybe it's because there are other people there? For some reason I think the grand Sasuke and Naruto fight has to take place without spectators, like it did with Valley of the End.

[blakrose-eris.livejournal.com]

What I want to know is what is Sakura doing. She runs at Sasuke, he turns on their teacher and stabs him and she what? Stands there and wait for them to finish their fight or something. Come on. I am not the biggest Sakura fan, but I still believe she is capable of at least Giving Sasuke a good thump. He needs it and so does she.

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

I'm actually impressed that she at least made a move against Sasuke. I thought that showed that she grew up quite a bit (but that might be because I watch the dub and it's still in the, "Sakura crushes after Sasuke like whoa," part of the series). But yeah, I really really want her to at least punch him in the face, I mean we all know Naruto is going to do it, but I'd like to see her do it too ^__^

[seki-yumizu.livejournal.com]

Well... Sasuke's body is still out there right? XD
While I don't think Naruto is in a stable enough mental state to pummel Sasuke outta his mind (I mean, would you feel stable if someone appeared in this secret place where you held your greatest secret? I'd feel scared shit, especially when now you have to face off the Kyuubi plus Sasuke who just electrocuted the crap outta you o.O)

But Sakura can pummel the physical form all she likes I guess ^^; But her role as a medic nin tells me that she needs to do some serious healing first.

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I expect Naruto to be pretty f-ing surprised and messed up after this move. I think she'll at least try to heal Yamato first though. I can't wait until next week to see what happens between the boys via Naruto's mind.

[aradiantsun.livejournal.com]

First off, I enjoyed this very much. Second, I agree with about 95% of what you said. I've been a Sasuke fan from the moment I got into this series two years ago, and I enjoy the way his character has been developed. He's not a character who wants a happy end, because his idea of a happy end isn't all that happy. At first I was annoyed that he was gone for so long, but I wasn't wishing that he hadn't left. He needed to leave, and, like you, I'm very happy that Kishimoto didn't bring him back to Konoha the first time.

However, I think Sakura will be rather important to Sasuke should he return. Even if he doesn't acknowledge her personally as he most likely will Naruto (though I hope he will acknowledge her), she'll continue to do things for him. I don't believe she'll be content with bringing him back and then letting him deal with life with only Naruto as a friend. She cares too much about him (romantically and as a friend). She may have the advantage over Naruto as far as knowing/realizing Sasuke's not the same, but just because someone knows something doesn't mean their heart agrees with their mind. It took Sakura three chapters to snap out of her daze, she was fighting with her emotions. She had to make her heart realize what her brain has known for however many years. She hasn't given up on Sasuke, and that's just as important as Naruto not giving up. Yes, Naruto has put his dreams of being Hokage on hold (in a sense) in order to get Sasuke back, and Sakura hasn't really given up anything (rather she gained quite a bit), but she's always been willing to do everything for Sasuke, except give up on him and her feelings for him.

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

95%, wow awesome!

Yeah, you're totally right about Sakura. She'd not only be there for Sasuke, but for Naruto too. If anything, the time jump has shown how much she has grown because she isn't the same Sakura who was stuck on Sasuke, she also cares for Naruto. She cares for her team, and I love her for it.

You know, the way you say it (with her knowing before Naruto) kinda makes her pain worse, because she has known and she's probably had this sense that he was leaving one day, whereas Naruto just sort of had it dumped in his lap. It's kinda like how you know someone will die versus it just happening (not saying one person's pain is more important then another). In a way, she got to kinda sit back and wait for the moment to happen, and since it took so long, she probably kinda let it pass and thought that maybe Sasuke wouldn't really go through with the whole quest for power. Then when he did it was like, "Oh... so he really is leaving..."

Damn, poor girl. Nice analysis, kudos to you :)

[aradiantsun.livejournal.com]

Sakura has grown so much that when people (not you, because you remained objective in your essay/rant) bash her my hackles get raised. She's been through just as much as Naruto and Sasuke have, but in different ways. Both of them are responsible for helping her grow, and she wants to help them the way they helped her. Her devotion to those two silly boys is something to be admired, not ridiculed.

I think it makes her pain worse. The night Sasuke leaves, you can totally see her struggling to tell Naruto about the Curse Seal. But she didn't know how to word it, and when you don't know how to say something important like that, it's normal that you clamp up. I really wish we knew how Sakura spent the time between Naruto's mission to get Sasuke back and when he returned empty-handed. She must have been a mess of emotions, and whatever she realized during that time truly made her an adult. The two and a half years she spent with Tsunade have done her a world of good, and I think that aside from gaining strength and medical-skills, she was able to "organize" her emotions for both Sasuke and Naruto because Tsunade has been through similar situations. She lost her brother and the man she loved, as well as a teammate.

As you can probably tell, I'm a Sakura fan... Thank you, your analysis was nice, too. It's nice to discuss things like this with people who remain objective.

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

:) I have no problem with Sakura and I think even people who hate her to death have to admit that she has grown, a lot. I actually got inspired to do another analysis (god this is why it's bad when school is over for me, gyah grad school won't be for another year!) about Naruto and Sakura, because I do have a theory about the two of them. Mostly, that if Naruto were a girl, he'd (she'd) be getting a lot of grief for constantly going after Sasuke, then I realized... wait... that's Sakura! She got (and still gets) tons of bashing over Sasuke. Whee for free time -_- I'll probably write it later tonight.

And I really liked the way you put her perspective, I mean I've thought about it before just not like that. Mostly around the time when whatever new ending that was where she was crying in the boat with Naruto (or whatever they were sitting on) and people were like, "God she's crying!" And I'm like, "Wow... I didn't know crying over losing a teammate was so horrible..." Then when she finally got strong she was called a Tsunade-clone... poor girl can't catch a break.

[aradiantsun.livejournal.com]

Yay, I can't wait to read those analyses. if Naruto were a girl, he'd (she'd) be getting a lot of grief for constantly going after Sasuke, then I realized... wait... that's Sakura! Thank you! *glomps* I don't understand why more people don't realize this. That's one of the reasons I see Naruto and Sakura as very close siblings and one of the reasons why I can't see NaruSaku ever happening, but that's a subject for another day.

Thank you. I don't really share my opinions very often, so I'm glad someone enjoys them when I work up enough curage to share them. Ah yes, the animation for "Nakushita Kotoba". The song and the animation together really tugged at my heart the first time I saw it. It captured pain Naruto and Sakura were both feeling, but, as you said, many fans cheapened the feeling. Seeing her called a Tsunade-clone burned me the wrong way. The way I interpreted Tsunade's questioning when Sakura asked to be her apprentice was that Tsunade wanted to see if Sakura was different enough from herself not to have her story end the same way. Much like Jiraiya decided to train Naruto even after Naruto declared he'd rather be a fool than give up on Sasuke.

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

*giggles and hugs back*

I'm really glad you shared your opinion, I think it made my analysis better because now I see Sakura's POV better. Aha! That's the song, I couldn't remember the name of it but I know it's on my computer somewhere. Mind if I friend you? It's always nice to have interesting conversations about anime and manga and fandom (god... this is why my parents think I'm so strange... -_-)

[aradiantsun.livejournal.com]

Again, thank you. I'm glad my rambling helped in having you see Sakura's POV better. Surely, I'll friend you back. Indeed it is a lovely thing to have interesting and good discussions with fellow anime and manga fans. (My mother and rl friends are the same way, and some of them are into anime and manga. Thank goodness for the interweb!)

[aradiantsun.livejournal.com]

Yay, another Sakura fan! *looks around nervously* That's a big irritation to me, too. I guess they see Sakura still struggling with her emotions as her not being developed, but there's so much more to her that they'd see if they just opened their eyes a little more. (I've tried many times as well to essay Sakura's value, but my excuse for never finishing is that I feel like my point isn't coming across as eloquently as I wish it could.) I'm glad I was able to brighten your day by saying all of this. We Saura fans need to stick together and defend her! ♥

[aradiantsun.livejournal.com]

Sakura's struggles make her more human, and it's a great deal of why I love her, too. Out of all the characters in Naruto she's the only main character who couldn't do anything special for the large part of the series. Of the three main characters, Sakura is the only one who doesn't have anything other than her intelligence to make her stand out. I'm categorizing her strength under intelligence because it's aided by chakra, the level of which needs to be handled precisely, so you can't be stupid and wield the power she does. Does that make sense? Out of the three, Sakura is the most human, so it makes sense to me that her development would be the most similar to human struggles.

Annnnd now I'm repeating myself, and I also apologize to brichibi. But I am enjoying this discussion, on-topic or not. It's intelligent and a breath of fresh air.

[aradiantsun.livejournal.com]

I definitely identify with Sakura. But I'm most like Sasuke. The thing I love about most of the characters is that they've all got layers like onions~ *is shot*, which gives them lots of depth, so you're bound to identify with at least one aspect of everyone. I've noticed that a lot of people don't like the characters with flaws because the flaws make them more human, and they don't want to be reminded of human frailty - they just want to escape for a few hours or so.

If you do, I'll be sure to comment!

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

Yes yes apologize to me! Hahahaha, I don't care, whatever *giggles* Hey, my essay got responses from both of you so I'm happy :)

[kireiko.livejournal.com]

I was just saying how hard it is to find posts that actually discuss stuff, so thank you very much for your insightful post!

I totally agree with your last three posts. I think it's great that you've put a lot of thought into this, it's very much appreciated.

^_____^

~kir

[kireiko.livejournal.com]

blah, I meant last three points...

I can't type properly. -___-;;;

~kir

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

It's all right, thanks for reading and enjoying it :) I swear sometimes I put too much thought into stuff -_-

[seki-yumizu.livejournal.com]

I think Naruto gets it really. That Sasuke doesn't want to go back. But all the same he wants to drag Sasuke back because he thinks it's a doomed path ahead (I mean, he knows about the taking over Sasuke's body thing, which means Sasuke's death which he obviously doesn't want)

I mean, otherwise what would that speech about being dead and still dragging Sasuke back mean? ^^;;;;

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

That is true, he does think it is a doomed path, and it sucks to see your friends going down a bad road. But part of me thinks that Naruto is still wishing for that happy ending and not totally realizing that Sasuke is going to, you know, put him through a lot of grief. I mean I know he had that speech about dragging Sasuke back no matter what, but I also think that after seeing him again that kinda, you know, made his heart drop and anything he might have said kinda got tossed out the window (especially after Sasuke entered his mind) Yes, next week should be interesting indeed ^__^

[princess-emmi.livejournal.com]

I would have to agree with nearly every thing you said here.

I know that for a long time a part of me hoped Sasuke would go back with Naruto and everything would be mansex love and butterflies. But it's true, if Sasuke had gone back to Konoha with Naruto it would have been... I don't know.... redundant.

I would have to say that now, after everything that's happened in the series, I still want Naruto to be happy, but it just seems better that he needs to earn it. Besides, nothing concerning Sasuke could ever be immediately happy or easy. But you're right.... Sasuke needs to come to an understanding of exactly what he's done to his team, and how its... somehow dissolved a bit without him. But you were right, Sasuke needed to leave Konohagakure in order to realise his true potential, because he wasn't getting any where. But honestly... He maybe needs to rethink his 'dream' of defeating Itachi, because it just doesn't seem plausible. Itachi was a genius at such a young age. Way younger then Sasuke. And while Sasuke had to go to the academy, Itachi continued to train and get stronger, and even now, as Sasuke advances.... so does Itachi. So it seems to me that Sasuke is blaming hismelf for not being stronger then his brother, which is something he cannot help >.>; Oi, Sasuke.

Next, on Naruto, I'd have to say that.... I don't think NAruto will make Hokage. I love Naruto- I really do, he's probably one of my absolute favourite characters, but I simply don't see the people in Konohagakure accepting him for who he is- ever. Unless it ends up somehow like Gaara, and they do it 'cause they're scared of him. But seriously- I think Naruto already knows this. He's not as dumb as a lot of people made him out to be. He knows.

Consdiering Sakura... I think you were right. I think... she needs to understand a bit more. I do like Sakura, now that she's grown up a lot, but I think she's still got a ways to go. Naruto had to find out the hard way that Sasuke was suffering because of the cuse seal, and I think it would have been harder for him having it dumped on him all at once as opposed to Sakura who had time to think it all over and make sense of this. The fact that numerous people in Konohagakure knew about Sasuke, and that not one of them thought to tell Naruto.... a memeber of Sasuke's team, that there was such a potential danger going on... just goes to show how very little trust and confidence they have in him.

And y'know what? I hope Naruto brings him back, and I hope Naruto shows him a little bit of what's it's like to be ostracized and looked down on. I think that it's nothing less then what Sasuke deserves.

Anyways, I also have no idea what I meant to say in this post aside from the fact that you, Chibi-chan, are my hero &hearts.

~Lyndsay

[brichibi.livejournal.com]

Naruto did have to find out the hard way, versus Sakura who has known ever since... whenever that was. At the same time, I feel for the girl because she knew all that time that something was wrong, but Sasuke was still there, so there had to be this thought of, "Well maybe he isn't actually going to go," because it was like, another 70+ episodes before Sasuke left. And Sasuke told her not to say anything to Naruto, so she held that in for so long. But you know, I never realized what you said until now, all those people knew and yet no one told Naruto. Why? Kakashi knew, Sakura, some of the people in the village. Why wasn't he allowed to know?

Yeah... the whole Sasuke and Itachi thing... it's not like Itachi has been slacking off these past couple of years. I know Sasuke is strong now, but he was strong before and Itachi totally kicked his ass, so unless something super spectacular happened... as for Naruto being Hokage, I have no idea. He's starting to get a bit more respect in the village now, but I almost wonder how long his dream will hold up (I mean it almost seems like he keeps saying the Hokage thing just because people kinda expect him too, but I don't feel that same enthusiasm).

Yay I'm someone's hero! *giggles*

[princess-emmi.livejournal.com]

Yeah, see, it's just... not fair for poo Naruto, I mean... everyone looks down on him for reasons that he cannot conciously control, and evenin the later parts of the manga, when they sent the team out for Sasuke, the elders or whomever had an issue with Naruto going as he is. Because of the Kyuubi. And that's not fair. It just shows that no matter what he does, and no matter how many times he saves the village.... it's jsut not going to happen for him, because it's the elders he has to impress.

But you never know what Kishimoto-sensei might do- he's relatively unpredictable when he wants to be. So Naruto might become Hokage and there may be a Konoha wide orgy anything's possible ^^ In fact, I figure that after Sasuke kills Itachi... he's probably going to die too v.v;;; but who knows, who knows >.>;;

And yeah you're my hero. I'd give you my sould, but I already did that :P

~Lyn