Is image heavy and contains spoilers if you only watch the anime.

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Okay chuunin-ers I need to get something off my chest.

 

 Jiraiya is not ........

 
Jiraiya is not dead.


This is not just wishful thinking on my part I have my reasons for believing this…



#1

Choji did not die while fighting Jirobo. However, it took 43 chapters to find out.




#2

Neji did not die while fighting Kidomaru. But it took 36 chapters to find out.



#3

Orochimaru did not die when cut up into chunks with Sasuke’s katana. But it took 47 chapters to find out.




#4

Sandaime did die while fighting Orochimaru, we found out in the very same chapter.



#5

Asuma died while fighting Hidan, we found out in the same chapter. 



#6

Gaara died while having his bijuu extracted, It took 19 chapters before we found out he could be resurrected.



Jiraiya has been M.I.A. for 29 chapters.




The real reason I don’t believe Jiraiya is dead…














 



Jiraiya keeps restating the need to "never give up".

Dying would be giving up.


The only reason we actually have to believe in Jiraiya’s death comes from 
Fukasaku-sama (the old frog guy) who left just as Jiraiya’s body fell into the 
water, So he never saw a corpse, he is only assuming. (And considering 
Jiraiya is a toad sage, he can probably breathe under water.)



I will only believe he is truly dead when I see Naruto at his funeral on the 
roof of the Hokage tower wearing his mourning clothes. (And probably not even then.)


Kishi does this time and time again, I can’t understand why People are so 
willing to believe he’s gone.



And by the way, I’m really disappointed in Naruto believing that Jiraya died 
just like that. He should’ve had more faith…



….I have faith in you Ero-sennin, I have faith. 








edit: two cuts are better than none.

Comments

[officialbizness.livejournal.com]

I'm following the logic, but considering the way that Chouji and Neji's deaths were not acknowledged by any other characters and not necessary to carry on the plot, unlike how the deaths of Asuma, Orochimaru, Sandaime, Gaara, and now Jiraiya were, I must disagree. If I need to eat these words in a year, so be it!

[winterwing3000.livejournal.com]

It's also possible for Pein to have taken Jiraiya's corpse and used it. 0.0 Or Pein's keeping an alive Jiraiya imprisoned. Who knows. Kishimoto's whacked up.

But then again, he might actually be dead. T___T Poor Jiraiya!!

[fjazz13.livejournal.com]

Maybe Jiraiya is now part of Pein's bodies or puppets that's how we'll see him next time probably? not sure how that works or even if they hold some sort of their old selves if they're dead. It could be something like that anyway.

[sun-myths.livejournal.com]

I don't think dying would equal giving up. Especially not when the death is for an important cause, as Jiraiya's was.

Re: I LOVE YOU

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Naruto has three sensei ;) if one has to die the most logical (for me anyway) would be Kakashi, it seems unlikely that Naruto would be made hokage if he were still alive.

Sasuke will return, one day. I'm not giving up on him either.

Maybe Kurenai's baby should take her last name. I read a short one-shot somewhere about Konohamaru and how he refused to smoke or grow a beard because he was worried about the Sarutobi legacy.

[premium-shaday.livejournal.com]

D8

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

It's interesting that you mention Tsunade not retrieving his corpse, that is not something I'd considered. It gives me even more hope :)

[atom0001.livejournal.com]

As much as I'd like for this to be true, I'd rather face reality and be pleasantly surprised, then remain hopeful and have that hope shattered.

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Good point, Pein could walk through the gates of Konoha in Jiraiya's body!

[kayuuko.livejournal.com]

Well... during the last Jump event Naruto's seiyuu asked Kishimoto if Jiraiya is really dead and he answered that he will live on in our hearts...
He didn't say no nor did he say yes...

I have to search for that report again but I am pretty sure that he said it like this.

[akapiratequeen.livejournal.com]

Yes, I remember he said that too. I was depressed for days when Jiraiya died. Would love to see him again, in ghost-form or otherwise. Perhaps he'd like to be reincarnated in New Jersey.

[fjazz13.livejournal.com]

We could see him next time as the enemy.

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

But what is reality in a ninja-verse where 12 year old boys can disguise themselves as nubile, naked young women, walk on water and breathe fire

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Jiraiya doesn't need to be dead to carry on the plot, it is only necessary
for Konoha to believe he is dead.

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Kishi is playing with us!

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Are there lots of beautiful women in New Jersey?

[akapiratequeen.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm here! :-)

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Yes, he could be a prisoner, it would be very careless of Pein if he didn't check to make sure Jiraiya was dead.

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Dying = giving up is the whole basis of my argument, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

[teambenevolence.livejournal.com]

I think it's safe to say Jiraiya's dead. Why else send the toads with the message and not try to deliver it himself? Also consider his last scene, where he reconsiders Naruto to be the chosen child. What better way for him to die than to be seen as passing on the torch to the next generation, like Asuma did with his speech about the king and so on?

With Chouji, Neji and Orochimaru it was never announced to other characters they had 'died' (even if the readers were lead to believe so), whereas Jiraiya was, never mind that he was obviously fatally injured in the fight with Pein. And unlike the Sasuke retrieval squad, there was no way a medic nin could have found and healed him in time.

[paperninja.livejournal.com]

Could be. And your demonstration that Kishimoto's done the same thing several times before is very relevant.

The question in my mind is: does it intensify the main conflict of the series (Can/should Naruto save Sasuke?) to have Jiraiya alive but MIA, or actually dead? I could see arguments either way.

But the first thing that comes to my mind is that Jiraiya's death functions to put more stress on Naruto (who is acting mostly out of faith, determination and optimism) and raise the emotional stakes of that central conflict. Jiraiya, after all, couldn't save Orochimaru (who was possibly beyond saving), and ultimately lost his life in the struggle against Akatsuki (who are already being blurred with Sasuke into one Big Bad rather than two factions.) Jiraiya's example therefore could be seen as further evidence that Naruto is on a fool's errand in trying to save Sasuke, or in even insisting that Sasuke can be redeemed. This puts more pressure on Naruto to hold on to his faith in Sasuke's better nature and to continue believing that no one is beyond redemption. Add to this that Jiraiya was someone Naruto was very close to, and has always been set up as a symbol of where Naruto may end up himself. The series is, imo, emotionally compelling because the dilemma Naruto faces (can I save this person? Should I save this person? Is this person who I thought he was or was I just kidding myself?) is so fraught, difficult and lacking in a quick easy answer. If I were in Kishi's shoes myself, I'd consider leaving Jiraiya dead to be the best option for the story- intensify that conflict, intensify the suspense.

But that said, I'm tempted to want Jiraiya back just because he was one of my favorite characters. R.I.P Ero-sennin. :/ I'd definitely be glad to see him survive anyway, all technical plot stuff aside.

[paperninja.livejournal.com]

Well... during the last Jump event Naruto's seiyuu asked Kishimoto if Jiraiya is really dead and he answered that he will live on in our hearts...

XD What a perfect non-answer. I probably rag on this dude too much, that's kind of awesome of him.

[dlvr.livejournal.com]

Well I also thought, why didn't Jiraiya summon a toad and escape, taking the message back to Konoha? Because as I mentioned in another reply Kishi is playing with us, he wants us to believe he is dead, why else would he wait 29 chapters without giving us solid evidence. Giving Jiraiya an epic speech to go 'out' with could just be another way to cloud the issue, make his death believable.

The time span of the Sasuke retrieval arc was very short, maybe 24 hours (it is always hard to judge time in Naruto) so this would be why no other characters knew about Chouji and Neji, as for Orochimaru, I can't remember if it was mentioned to Tsunade, I probably read that in a fan-fic.

As for Jiraiya being 'obviously fatally injured' I wouldn't call it obvious, after all Deidara had both arms ripped off and survived with no trouble. Who's to say he needs a med-nin, he is a legendary sannin, Orochimaru didn't die the first time he was killed either.

[teambenevolence.livejournal.com]

Well it's also a fairly common theme for the master to die so the student can surpass him - hell it happened with Asuma and Shikamaru already lol.

Mm, as far as I can remember, Konoha got news Sasuke beat Orochimaru, but I'm not sure if they went as far as saying he killed him.

Deidara had Kakuzu to presumably sow his arms back on, and honestly Kakashi and Gaara are nowhere near Pein's level, especially with his several bodies. Not to mention we see Jiraiya sinking in the lake after his final thoughts about Naruto and the prophecy. And, well about the Sannin not needing a medic nin...what, you think Orochimaru had Kabuto hanging around him for the lulz? And considering his injuries it's safe to say Jiraiya would've needed a medic at least.

[momopi.livejournal.com]

Agreed ♥

Jiraya realized that his time had came and accepted it. I don't think he would have regarded fighting and dying for something he believed in as 'giving up'.