DA Witch Hunt

[zelha.livejournal.com]

It's not my intention to start a wank, but I feel all the Naruto artists ought to read this.

Read about the new DA policies here

All in all, I'm not a fanartist, but this is getting ridiculous. Nami86, a well-known and loved SasuSaku artist got banned and they haven't told her for how long. The folks at the Inuyasha fandom are pissed off and offended, and I can't really blame them. This is just like the LJ witch hunt all over again.

Artists at DA, I suggest you protect your galleries and take down the pieces that show erotica. It's better for you guys to host those pieces here in your scrapbooks than facing all that appalling stupidity.

ETA: Backpedaling update by RealitySquared. LOL.

Comments

[fujiappletan.livejournal.com]

but.
but she draws them very. teenage. not underage when she. draws the hot sasusaku. DA I RAGE AT YOU. DDDD:

[yami-jay.livejournal.com]

*reads the link* My icon is appropriate for the subject.

I sincerely they are going over-board with this story. I will use the "excuse" they are telling. THEY ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS FOR GOD'S SAKE! Why can't they understand that fanart is often fanservice and that fanservice can evolve such scene as erotic images. Even if the characters are underage, a lot of them are around (and often over) the age they can make decisions and say yes or no to "sexual" situation. That's we call the age of consent. They seem to FORGET THAT in there idiotic new policy.

What pisses me off is that they go after really good artists. And going after good artists means they won't be interested to post anymore and that sucks.

*breathes out* That situation pisses me off.

[hosh]

Why bitch about something so frivolous when there's at least 10,000 vagina pictures and actual, non-fiction porn on deviantART?

Fail.

[yami-jay.livejournal.com]

Agree.

I'm ALMOST tempt to try and go find some of those images and actually report them.

[hosh]

Same here. Fiction =\= RL

[derranged.livejournal.com]

RealitySquared has always been a cuntfag, fer reals. The entire situation can't get much more lame, but nothing can be done because the faggot in charge will never be able to pull his fat airhead out of his own ass. :/

[tenshi-saito.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I've seen that rant before.

But really, take me for example: I am 16. Does drawing an underage character in a "sexy" pose make me a pedo? Can you imagine how ridiculous it would be if they banned someone my age or younger for drawing pictures of a 17-year-old?
I think by then there would be some sort of split-off. Hopefully so.

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

O good grief.

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

People just don't get it. Like the poster above me said, there's a disconnect there. I personally do have trouble sexualizing underage characters for whatever reason, but I can easily see how it's possible to sexualize an underage character without sexualizing a real underage person. Plus, in a series like Naruto, it can be argued that much of this likely results from the characters being shoved into such 'mature' roles in other aspects of life.

It does suck, though. I wonder if that artist is the one who drew this one really awesome SasuSaku picture I faved which got deleted. It was erotica, kind of.

[rainejoybringer.livejournal.com]

I can see where the policy is coming from, although the 'drawing them as older' thing there is a grey area which crosses into the 'what is art/stylistic differences' argument. It's a very harsh policy for when they should be taking more measures against the actual underage/camera-whore photos that filter into the site.

[officialbizness.livejournal.com]

Of course, we have the other end of the spectrum over at y-gallery, where art of underage boys getting raped is completely kosher. Hell yeah, go draw that distended rectum of a four-year old! Freedom of speech, guys!

dA, as long as you're not approving that kind of shit, you're doing a pretty good job keeping pedos out of your userbase.

[hosh]

Though some fan art's already been deleted, but here's a thought:

Naruto spins off of AUs and have actually kicked off with Gakuden. Students, as a general populace, graduate when they are 18. Naruto and Sasuke are shown graduating within the OVA (zomg, it can even be called... secondary cannon?) and can thus be "deemed" of age.

Not that it matters, since I've read that fan art is being deleted, "child" or adult, for simply being focused on a "kiddie show."


Just something I had thought about... even if it's horrible and has loopholes :3

[aquatic-party.livejournal.com]

Not flaming, just agreeing.
Now I think if you draw those same characters and they actually look 18 or over, then there's no issue. But I personally do not like to stare at two twelve year olds getting it on. So for that I'm glad they've strengthened their policy.
However banning hand-holding and kissing form being depicted in images is a bit extreme.

And you're right; the line is thin, and I believe the last time RS posted journals confronting this issue, he said that it would be judged in a case-by-base basis.

[ormery.livejournal.com]

'Witch hunt'? o pls. Yeah, okay, it's a bit over the top, but I think their actions are pretty valid, especially considering dA's search function. Despite their recent efforts to enforce the use of the 'mature' option, plenty of people still don't mark their stuff mature a lot of the time ... and even people who're prepared to view mature stuff could well be offended by seeing a character from something from their childhood engaged in lewd activities even if they've been aged up, never mind the kids looking for pictures of Naruto bein kickass or whatever and finding pictures of him getting licked by Sasuke. Because of the uneasy legal footing you're automatically on once you're dealing with fanart, I can see why dA would want to keep themselves on the safe side with this – if someone stirs something up about fanart, then they could get in trouble.

This post is pretty asswaddish, sure, but as for the policy itself? I don't blame them at all.

[zelos22.livejournal.com]

these comments make me embarrassed to be in the fandom. no wonder anime fans have a rep for being perverted.

yay

[kyandii-holic.livejournal.com]

Since they're being this concerned about fictional characters' age and intercourses, I wonder if they've done anything for the naked pictures people post on DA. There are tons of boobs and vagina pictures under "artistic portrait" and I'm sure most of their owners aren't even 16.

...still they'd rather censor fanarts.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

head+desk=dumbass DA admin
Because honestly LOOK at who's looking at those pictures in question (the anime ones at least) is it pedophiles? no, it's 15-30+ year old women for the most part. And the "sexingup" of minors, correct me if i'm wrong but if you take a minor and make them look like an adult WHY exactly would a pedophile be interested? Talk about defeting the point.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

PS - I've always been somewhat concerned about posting anything of a graphic sexual nature on DA because of the lack of safe gaurds (hey look some of us ARE responsible!) even though the characters in question are adults (and not just aged up omg you mean some of draw such thing?! sorry it's late and I'm snarky) can anyone recomend a decent site of similar nature as DA ie and art site, where such material is more acceptable? preferably free? I've heard mixed reviews about y-gallery, some so bad it makes me scared to go and check it out myself.

[rainejoybringer.livejournal.com]

Good point. Typically, I find "those" sorts of artworks/fanfics deplorable. I've looked, I didn't like - no thanks, ew. I like to keep on the lighter side of things.

However, a few complaints about content seem legitimate about how they've gone a little trigger happy here. I don't see the harm in drawing a couple characters kissing/hugging each other. What they say they're targeting is the sorts of things that would get perverts off, such as sexing up underage characters (stylistic differences between artists make this a little hard probably, but that's a whole other argument for another time).

DA can be a helicopter parent if they want to, it's their legal right to say what can and can't be put on their site. It's their asses on the line after all, and it'd be a bigger shitstorm if the FBI got involved in this. I almost wonder if they did get involved they'd not only target the site and artists, but also those that even fav'd and gave positive comments on the artworks.

Still, it seems just a little overboard and they still have a lot of issues to do with photography - likely they always will have that problem though. The photography community is a bit weird on the whole "what is art?" subject, even offline. That Bill Henson guy in Australia managed to have a whole exhibition depicting a naked 13 year old girl. Even though they weren't pornographic in nature, it was still kinda weird.

Oh, and word about hosting on an independent site. Japanese fanartists are already doing it and nobody complains about them that much.

[xizarx.livejournal.com]

Well, dA policy sucks sometimes. But Nami86, if I'm not wrong, was banned for art thieve/tracer, not for the sexual thing.

I once had a pic of mine being taken down for being "underage characters". They were fucking Zetsu and Pein! WTF? They're probly 30! I totally posted that same pic again and they never did anything again.

Also, Naruto is not a children's show. Teens, yes, Children, not. If someone says Naruto is for children it means they never watched Naruto uncensored. There are lots of sexual insinuations, violence, etc.

[mildmay.livejournal.com]

Just like DA has a right to ban whatever they want from their site, people have a right to state their opinion on DA's policies. You agree with the terms. That's fine. Others don't. That's also fine.

And honestly, the comments in this post are pretty civil and reasonable from what I can tell. Especially considering how ugly things got on LJ just last year over the Strikeout 07 stuff. I haven't seen anything particularly wanky from anyone here (unless I missed a thread, which is always possible). So I'm not sure why you're making it sound like most of the people commenting here, except for the three you listed, are being rude somehow? Last night, I responded to one of your threads with an honest question. If you found that rude or something, I'm sorry? It wasn't my intent. I was curious, and ew_younerd answered it and that was that. :\

[twistedsheets10.livejournal.com]

Oh crap, this is like LJ strikeout again, isn't it? O_o

While I respect the right of DA to make policies of what they want to have on their site, I wish they'd make their announcements or these changes more, I dunno, better PR-wise. LJ made the same mistake. Also, I believe customers have the right also to complain of what they feel as UNFAIR treatment, which in some cases, is what happens.

(I wonder if DA people are aware that anime characters tend to look more like teenagers even when they're NOT?)

I feel much of the reason people get upset here is the implied thought that if you draw underage characters doing naughty, sexual things, you're a pedo. Which never sits well with anyone, because its certainly not true. And with regards to the RL photos, I understand people feel that they're being unfairly treated if those types of photos don't get taken down, but theirs, which are fictional, do.

[gwinna]

I have to say, while I am not a member of deviantart and rarely visit that site unless linked, while I am not a fanartist, or an artist at all, while so far from seeking out any kind of erotica I would prefer to avoid it, and while I definitely support taking measures against pedophiles, that first journal post really irritated me.

Not so much by the content, but rather by the tone and the insinuations. The guy makes it sound as though anyone who draws erotic fanart featuring underage, including teenage, characters must be a covert pedophile. However, I'm pretty sure that if someone draws SasuSaku art, it's most likely because they love SasuSaku, and not because they're a pedophile trying to get around the legal restrictions on child erotica by using fictional characters as their subjects. And that many people who "age up" the characters so that they're adults legitimately wish to depict the characters as adults, and are not just trying to exploit a loophole in the policy. Implying otherwise, as realitysquared does, is both dishonest and really insulting to a lot of fans, who are not pedophiles.

The policy itself seems reasonable enough, especially in the second post where he actually explains the reasoning behind it (I notice also that "aged up" characters are now placed in the grey area). Even there, however, he implies that everyone who expressed disagreement with, or felt attacked by, the first post is a drama queen. The way that initial post is worded, I'm not surprised people were offended by it. I was surprised that a site administrator would write a rant like that to discuss policy. It seems... unprofessional.

In short, I agree with twistedsheets10: DA needs to work or their PR.

[aquatic-party.livejournal.com]

I hate to say this, but this is not a new policy. Not in the least. And this isn't a witch hunt. It's cracking down on violations of long-standing rules that have been slipping by. It's dA's rules; artists don't have to post there.

Compromise? What is this strange thing you speak of?

[youngsasuke.livejournal.com]

This just smacks of Big Brother to me.

If they truly cared about the content on their site, they would have gotten rid of all of those nude genital shots in their photography section. This is yet another case of flowery words covering up power trips and personal viewpoints that they consider far more important than a large chunk of their own userbase.

I mean, the least they could do would be to reply accordingly to some of the people who've commented on that latest post. Many of the arguments and positions taken by those accused and lumped into the 'second group' are well-worded and thought out. They're respectful in how they approach the issue. They themselves have stated that they don't support child erotica. In that, both DA's management and the 'second group' are in agreement. But on the other hand, it seems like many of the DA employees don't really give a (forgive my language) flying fuck about what the 'second group' has to say and continue to condemn these people, choosing to not even bother with giving a respectful response to well-put, respectful comments. Indeed, there are moments when they even treat the situation like it isn't worth getting into and revert to sarcasm and mock-politeness.

There's been a lot of name-calling and far too much posturing, and not enough arbitrating. There is a way to do this without offending as many people as DA's management seem to be, but it's only possible if hands are extended from both sides. The 'second group' has already put forth many suggestions for improved and fairer moderation, yet it seems that DA's management is making a mockery of the tried-and-tested method of compromise.

If they truly cared, if they truly did, they would at least make the effort to compromise. But they won't. Since members of the 'second group' put forth logical and fair arguments that they know are correct on some level but won't act on since they aren't their own views, and that just won't do. You can't build a city in a day, but there are steps that can be taken (and have been laid out in the discussion linked above) that can work towards a better, fairer means of moderation that works for most everyone(since there are always going to be those few conflict-mongers that just can't leave that dead horse alone).

If we fought so hard to attain democracy and fair management, then why are we now treating said processes in such a disrespectful manner? It's an insult to everyone that holds such values dear.