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chuunin_archiveSo Pain, Konan and all the clones attack Konoha. Including Pain's mysterious female clone, 'Animal'.
Animal's power is to summon animals- she's shown bringing up a giant centipede.
Like all the giant animals which attacked Jiraiya in the big fight earlier. The big fight in which we DIDN'T SEE Animal at all.
"The real one isn't there."
PAIN AND KUSHINA ARE THE SAME PERSON!!!ELEVENTYONE!!!
Or maybe not. But that theory isn't dead yet.
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Date: 2008-10-04 03:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 08:24 am (UTC)Though I admit that Nagato controlling them all from an underground lair or something is much more likely, it's just more awesome this way.
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Date: 2008-10-04 09:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 03:05 am (UTC)WOAH.
On a related note, that blonde girl in the Raikage's office is Ino in disguise. ;)
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Date: 2008-10-04 08:26 am (UTC)I was really disappointed when Naruto's 'tomboy' mother didn't have spiky hair and piercings in the flashback. Crack FTW.
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Date: 2008-10-04 03:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 08:25 am (UTC)And also, he prevented Jiraiya from seeing her, possibly to stop him recognising her?
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Date: 2008-10-04 04:52 am (UTC)No, really. I don't understand this theory.
Pein's bodies are just that, shells, and they can transfer the powers to a new body if one is killed. Or that's my opinion ^^U
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Date: 2008-10-04 08:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 04:53 am (UTC)Eh? Yes we do. He was the first one that showed up in the battle. He was the one that almost everyone in fandom thought was Deidara's body until the chapter he died.
"The real one isn't there" is definitely Nagato. But I've been speculating on what caused Nagato to do what he did (especially what he did to Yahiko), and I definitely think someone put that thought of creating Pain into his head. *cough*Konan*cough*
Kushina might actually turn out to be one of Pain's extra bodies later though. D: Gaw, that would suck.
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Date: 2008-10-04 08:29 am (UTC)http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/408/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/407/17/
And yeah, my less cracky theory was that Animal was Kushina as one of Pain's extra bodies. Which would be extremely angsty for her son. Though not as interesting as her being evil.
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Date: 2008-10-04 07:45 pm (UTC)That's cuz the Deidara!Pain was killed off by Jiraiya. So Pain brought out a new body, the female one, to replace it. But Deidara!Pain and female!Pain still share the same powers of animal summoning.
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Date: 2008-10-05 12:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 02:10 pm (UTC)We don't actually know that Nagato killed Yahiko, though.
It would definitely make sense and it's a likely theory, but I think it's possible that something else killed Yahiko and that is (at least a part of) what caused Nagato to become so wonky. If you think about it, the belief that Pein!Nagato keeps espousing (massive destruction as a form of deterrence) is actually Yahiko's belief. Yahiko was the one saying that you need to beat up/hurt others as a means of ending suffering and war. Which is why Pein may actually be Yahiko, but no, I think it's more likely that he adopted his dead friend's ideals (i.e. Kakashi with Obito).
And I'm not sure why he'd adopt his dead friend's ideals if he killed his friend in the first place (but it is possible). My theory, personally, is that Hanzou had something to do with Yahiko's death and that this is why Pein snapped and destroyed everything to do with Hanzou:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/369/14/
Could be tied to:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/373/08/
Plus, I think being unable to protect his friend would cement Pein as the perfect antithesis of Naruto. There's a definite parallel that the series seems to be trying to draw between the two (they even look quite similar), what with saying Nagato was originally intended to be the destined child and now Naruto is the destined child, so it'd make sense if Nagato failed in protecting his friends "no matter what kind of pain he had to go through" and was unable to handle it.
I do agree with you, however, that someone put a lot of ideas into his head. I think that someone was Madara. The whole God-and-angel thing is "just so batshit Madara", to quote someone I know. I think Konan and Pein are totally, one-hundred-percent in it together and she is as much for what he's doing as he is (as opposed to just idly supporting him), but I think Madara is probably the one who took these two lonely, daydreaming, depressed kids and tried to channel their bitterness against the world into this terrible destructive force. It would make sense, because M is a great manipulator and I don't think he'd want to let something like the rinnegan slip out of his hands.
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Date: 2008-10-05 12:36 am (UTC)It would definitely make sense and it's a likely theory, but I think it's possible that something else killed Yahiko and that is (at least a part of) what caused Nagato to become so wonky.
I just updated my journal with that exact theory a few days ago! I honestly think that Konan, Nagato, and Yahiko got attacked. Yahiko got fatally wounded and Nagato (in a possible attempt to "save him") turned him into the first Pain body. Then proceeded to go crazy slowly over the whole "the world brings nothing but pain" thing. I also have a theory saying that Konan was pushing him towards that idea after Yahiko died.
Plus, I think being unable to protect his friend would cement Pein as the perfect antithesis of Naruto.
Exactly!
I think Madara is probably the one who took these two lonely, daydreaming, depressed kids and tried to channel their bitterness against the world into this terrible destructive force.
Ah. That didn't even cross my mind. *fails* Good catch. I wonder if Madara did put the through of hatred into their head the way he did/tried to do with Sasuke. And now I'm wondering the possibility of it being Madara that killed Yahiko.
It would be a great reason for Pain/Nagato to turn against Madara in the end.no subject
Date: 2008-10-05 12:55 am (UTC)I do think Pein and Konan are pretty much mutually feeding each other's crazy. I'm not sure that one is the mastermind and the other is the follower. But I actually think if Konan were to say, hey, Pein, I can't do this, it's not right -- then he might be unable to continue. I was just thinking recently, if Naruto could get one of them alone and talk to them, he might be able to convince them that what they're doing is wrong (because, even though it seems like they don't have any doubts, I figure on some level they probably do actually have doubts), then he might be able to stop all this CRAZY.
But with them backing each other up the way they do, I don't see him getting through to them.
I just updated my journal with that exact theory a few days ago! I honestly think that Konan, Nagato, and Yahiko got attacked. Yahiko got fatally wounded and Nagato (in a possible attempt to "save him") turned him into the first Pain body.
I totally think this, too! Gah, I hope it turns out to be the case. I think that would make the most sense, and be the most emotionally suitable, but there's no telling what Kishi will do.
I think Naruto MIGHT have a chance of "getting through" to them because he is kinda like an echo of their childhood friend, Yahiko. If there's any humanity left in P and K, seems like Naruto might have a chance of reaching it.
And now I'm wondering the possibility of it being Madara that killed Yahiko. It would be a great reason for Pain/Nagato to turn against Madara in the end.
Hah, MAYBE SO! I totally have this theory that Pein and Madara don't like each other. Here is why I think this.
When Madara is walking off, Pein gives him this weird glare [http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/17/], and then it starts raining. Madara stands there gloating [http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/18/], and cut to a scene of Pein being totally upset-seeming [http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/19/]. Konan notices it. And she seems really protective of him around Madara. Like every time Madara is with Konan and Pein, M seems to feel the need to remind Pein of how powerful Naruto is and he just seems . . . really disparaging of Pein.
Like, this?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/407/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/407/16/
I totally hear it in my head as "There SEEM TO BE SOME DELAYS, PEIN. UFUFU. Oh, a failure!!one of TEH INVINCIBLE PEIN. UFUFUFU." It just seems like he really wants to knock Pein down a peg and "remind him of his place". And Pein and Konan seem very ">:OOOO I H8 YOU" at him, in response. So maybe they will turn against him! I kinda totally hope they do, actually.
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Date: 2008-10-05 09:52 pm (UTC)I'm not sure that one is the mastermind and the other is the follower.
I think Konan is puppeting Nagato because she does a lot of unnecessary "Pain is invincible" and "Pain is ZOMGTHEBESTAREYOUKIDDING?!" talk unprovoked. It seems like she's taking offense to the fact that someone might be calling something she's created weak. Of course there is a good chance that I see it that way because I really really really want her to be the mastermind. XD
I was just thinking recently, if Naruto could get one of them alone and talk to them, he might be able to convince them that what they're doing is wrong...
I hope not. I'm really not looking forward to another person being easily converted to Uzumakianity. I want angst and blood shed, dammit! lol
even though it seems like they don't have any doubts, I figure on some level they probably do actually have doubts
I'm not 100% sure about actual doubts, but I do think that Nagato/Pain's WORLDOMINATION™ scheme is more of a way to get back at the world for the death of Yahiko and causing so much pain (if my theory about Yahiko's death is correct) and not really about
WORLDOMINATION™ like he lead
MadaraAkatsuki to believe.I think Naruto MIGHT have a chance of "getting through" to them because he is kinda like an echo of their childhood friend, Yahiko.
It might be the fact that I need to rereread...but I thought that Yahiko's beliefs were more along the lines of "kicking ass and taking names", which is the exact opposite of Naruto's Why-Can't-We-Be-Friends Way of the Ninja policy.
I totally have this theory that Pein and Madara don't like each other.
Theory? I thought it was totally obvious from the beginning that Pain dislikes Madara! XD Especially because of the way Konan talks to Madara about Pain. They both can be a bit snooty.
OT: Your icon creeps me out and intrigues me at the same time. D:
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Date: 2008-10-05 10:20 pm (UTC)Hmm, but you might be right about Konan as the mastermind behind things! I could see a case for this, because I do get the vibe that Pein is rather concerned with her opinion. She is, after all, his childhood friend, the only person he's truly close to in the world (and vice versa). I am positive that her ideas would mean a great deal to him. AND he said he wanted to protect her and Yahiko no matter what kind of pain he had to go through. If he thought killing all these people = some weird means of "protecting" her (or something she would want), yeah, I could see it. Though the both of them seem very steeped in their delusions by this point, regardless of who kicked those delusions off -- whether it was him, her, or Madara himself. I guess the delusions are comforting.
I hope not. I'm really not looking forward to another person being easily converted to Uzumakianity. I want angst and blood shed, dammit! lol
Haha. I could go either way. I do likes me some angst. And Uzumakianity gets old after a while. Plus, Uzumakianity often isn't believable anyway. I'm kind of an angst whore, so I personally wouldn't complain if Kishi utterly maxed out on the levels of angst (though I know some people would be like NOOO TOO MUCH ANGST, but I have a high threshold XDDDDD).
re: Yahiko
Well, I suppose I meant more in the overall "feel" of the two kids. Yahiko was loud, brash, stubborn, forthright, kind of pigheaded, and he was protective of his friends (like Naruto) and said he intended to protect/save Nagato. That last scene of him, when he's slapping Nagato's back and being all like, ohoh, buddy, I'm totally gonna get more powerful than you and save YOU one day, winkwink? SOOOOO Naruto. XDD I remember this one scene in which Yahiko says that and Konan is like "Huh? But Nagato is stronger than you, Yahiko" (wow, even as a kid, she was ttly all about talking Nagato up! XD) and Yahiko is all like, OH YEAH? I'mma show YOU, Konan! Soo Naruto, to me. Eh, but I could be way off, I admit. I have no idea with these things.
And um. XD; Kishi has definitely surprised me before.
re: "theory"
Yeah. I guess by "theory", I meant more like, well, why does M feel the need to try to trash on Pein, I wonder? And if Pein hates M, why doesn't he just take him out already? I've wondered if maybe M is blackmailing Pein or something. Because Pein doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd just sit there and take Madara trying to insult him the way he does.
XDDDDDDD AHAHAHA, the SASUKE AND OROCHIMARU icon! Yeah, I saw someone on this community use that one, and I just had to snag it. It's so disturbing and hilarious. Sasuke makes for the funniest icons.
ETA: Your comment about his real motives being bitterness @ the world: I agree with this. I think there is definitely some whoacrazybitterness there. Pein/Nagato says he wants to save the world and end all wars. I think he's just trying to justify his own petty bitterness to himself. He has to convince HIMSELF that he's "a god of peace". Ya right he is. He's a kid who's never grown up. Because he's so powerful he can play god and live in his "castle". It's like his own power has prevented him from being able to mature and deal with his suffering in a way OTHER than "z0mg, crush things that oppose me". In that respect, he kind of reminds me of Gaara, before Gaara got pwned by Naruto.
I think that's what I find the most intriguing about Pein. In spite of being so powerful, he seems rather ill at ease, and I think he's ill at ease precisely because he's allowed his power to hinder him, rather than help him.
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Date: 2008-10-04 05:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 07:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 05:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 08:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-04 01:56 pm (UTC)http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/f/f6/Team_Jiraiya.jpg
(The girl, obviously)