Hmm...Viz failure or justified?

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

Has anyone else gotten the Viz release of Volume 32 that came out today? If it's hard to remember what Volume 32 includes, this is the one where Sai is introduced.


THEY CHANGED THE PENIS JOKES.

Instead Sai says: "You're pretty weak. Are you a boy, or a girl?"

And then when they are at the onsen, Sai tells Naruto: "Huh, fancy that...Naruto is a boy after all."

Okay the second line still has some of the original humor, but I don't believe the first line is the same AT ALL. I was under the impression from both the manga scanlations and the anime subtitles that he asked him specifically whether or not he had a penis. If I'm wrong and these were the choices of the translators, please correct me.

Is this word offensive to children? I thought it was the "other" words for penis that parents didn't want their kids seeing/hearing. Part of the humor is that he uses the word "penis," which sounds so clinical or "bookish" instead of a slang term.

In my opinion Viz shouldn't have changed it, because it's not sexual or mature enough to really warrant it. And the humor of the scene is completely ruined for me. For others, maybe not.

I was wondering if perhaps there might have been another reason for them changing it besides the fear that young boys may begin to wonder "Do I have a penis?" If they don't know that already their parents/school should be reprimanded. So ideas? Opinion? Fail Translation or Acceptable Alteration?


If this was something brought up when these chapters came out in the Monthly Shonen Jump, just tell me and I'll delete it.

Comments

[treat.livejournal.com]

I am outraged.

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

I try to support the mangaka/industry by buying the official English releases, but this was just... I feel bad for anyone who has never read the manga scanlations and loses out of the real essence of that scene. They'll come into the fandom and wonder why everyone thinks Sai has a penis obsession.

[ultrasushi.livejournal.com]

HOW DARE THEY. ;___;

they changed it in french, too. sai's speech pattern in french is...really weird.

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

Really?? Is no penis joke sacred in any official translation?

[rinnychan.livejournal.com]

I work at a book store, and I snuck a peek at these before they ever went out and was horribly disappointed :(

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

I would have still bought it even if I had known beforehand, just because I'm OCD enough to not be able to handle not buying it and then buying the next volume...but it is still very disappointing.

[table-chan.livejournal.com]

:|

What is this Viz? I'm not sure what the rating is for the english version, but if they can show sexy no jutsu...why can't they say penis?

Maybe their target audience is younger or whatever? I don't know. but fff ;___;

[ultrasushi.livejournal.com]

maybe 'cause it's too 'gay'? hell if i know. :|

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

I know that the target audience at least near to wha it is in Japan, so WHY would they see this as something to be altered. Are they phallic phobic? Had it been like "dick" or "cock" (excuse my language...) I would perfectly understanding toning it down, but it was "PENIS."

[libraire.livejournal.com]

Probably because it's somehow considered "less offensive" to show peeks of a woman's body than using a clinical, medical term. 8|

[eowyn-unquendor.livejournal.com]

I've wrote about this when I read the October issue of Shonen Jump;
http://community.livejournal.com/narutoforadults/55787.html
The scanlations were indeed much more fun!

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

Perhaps because scanlations always seem to be more accurate to the original because the official translations deal with censorship and other irrational restrictions.

[teambenevolence.livejournal.com]

Then again this is the company that gave us the wonder of Lee's special 'medicine' that made him use 'Loopy Fist'.

And hey, I have to wonder what they'll do when the dub gets to that part in the anime. Or Konohamaru's fanservice no jutsu.

I think Viz didn't want to deal with any outraged parents over seeing it mentioned in what they might assume is a manga for kiddies. Though..idk, isn't it mentioned on the back that Naruto is suited for teens, or kids?

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY. The back of the Naruto manga states that it is meant for TEENS. And so I have issues because a 13 year old should have some awareness of the word PENIS. I know they market to kids still because the anime attracts kids, but this manga is labeled for teens and they better not screw over CH347 because of this. I will protest.

[ootorotan.livejournal.com]

WTF?
I'm all for supporting the official versions, but this is part of the reason why it's so hard to do!
Fansubs/Scanlations are always more accurate, while the 'official' translations are trying to find a 'better' of 'more fitting' way to put it. Or, in this case, more appropriate? Even though it's clearly rated T.
On top of that, doesn't the statement 'are you a boy or a girl?' make Sai sound sexist instead? >.<

Urgh.

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

Good point about the sexism! I should have mentioned that when I wrote my complaint email to Viz. They have a address you can send questions/comment about manga translations to, and so I exercised my right to complain about their stupidity (if in a nicer, more diplomatic way).

[eli-artemisia.livejournal.com]

*HARBORS EXTREME HATRED OF VIZ*

Viz hacks up every manga they get a hold of. I've sworn them off completely because of their censorship and lackluster translations.

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say they hack "every" manga up. They do better now than in previous years, and to me, they're still better than some of Tokyopop's current translations. Who knows, if the process continues they may one day stop all of this editting and censoring all together! *puts on daydream glasses*

[psycho-freak77.livejournal.com]

WTF? the translation thing is bogus if on no other grounds than the fact that i had health class in the fourth and fifth grades that taught everything about the human body, reproductive systems included. so if a ten year old can learn about that in school, what's wrong with a joke in a book?

and, parental issues aside, i want to know why a parent would even be looking at manga (unless they read it. i know some adults that do, though they're rather uncommon). i mean, my mom may have said she "checked" my manga that i bought, but i know the most she did was glance at the front and back covers, nothing more. so how would a parent even know that such a joke was there, unless the kid was dumd enough to say something to them.

and, personally, i feel that if you don't like something from a manga/anime, then you should just STOP WATCHING IT, not bitch at the people in cahrge for them to change it. if it's really that offensive, wouldn't you want to distance yourself from it, not just get more involved (as the process of complaining would)?

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

Some other people have said that areas in the U.S. were uncomfortable with using terms like "penis" even in sex-ed classes, so perhaps it all depends on where you live and Viz is just trying to cover all bases. *shrugs*

Personally, for me, the joke falls flat. The scene at the onsen is funnier, but it could also be that the scene in general is humorous, with the art and the dialogue, but page 67 just didn't amuse me at all.

I agree, but Viz doesn't want to lose it's audience size and so they would rather change it than tell people: "Don't like, Don't read."

[hi-no-neko.livejournal.com]

. . . am I the only one not upset about this?

Sure, the original line was funny as hell, but keep in mind that this translation is being sold, largely, in America. Reportedly, in places like Wal*Mart . . . and I know I've seen the magazine being offered in Scholastic Book Club flyers.

Keep in mind that, for as socially toned-down as things are in Japan, they're a lot more comfortable with things like bodily functions and parts, even in kid comics.

But in the West? No way. Hell, here in America there are people uncomfortable with words like "penis" being used in sex-ed classes. If some ultraconservative father or pad-our-kids-from-everything mom discovered that a character in their kid's comic book was making penis jokes, they'd be calling the local news faster than you can say "Top Story Tonight".

It's not censorship. It's not a "reaction" to anything. The fine folks at Viz are just covering their asses.

The essence of the joke is still there - it's just worded in a way that makes Sai seem more like a grade-school sexist than a Corrupter Of Our Youth.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

". . . am I the only one not upset about this?"
nope

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

I honestly have no problem with it. The essence of the joke is still there and Sai's use of the word penis only becomes funny with it's repeated use later on and in fandom. in my opinion.
the target audience in the Us is considerably younger I think, in Japan you have teenagers and young adults, in the Us it's 10 year olds and middle schoolers as well.
And there's the question of rating systems, for all we know in order to maintain their current rating there's a list of words they can't use and that's one of them, (a list not made by Viz but the censor boards that is)
and generally speaking I think US censors and consumers are far more concerned with sex then violence.

Also in some ways I think that it has to do with the reading, I actually find this version a bit funnier. Because it gains a certain "wait what did you just say?!" quality to it

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

I guess maybe I'm just not use to this form of humor. The anime is rated for kids 10 and up, or somewhere along those lines, but the manga is rated for Teens though, and perhaps my main issue is that if this is a manga meant for ages 13 and up, then why is the word "penis" so bad? It worries me for what is going to happen to scenes in like chapter 347 and Hidan's beheading though. Are they going to edit those or remove them completely?

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

I agree that this is probably what occurred. I really would prefer it if they released an "Uncut" version of the manga just like they do for the anime, because I have issues with the "loss" of the author's story. Sure, you lose something just by translating it from Japanese to English, but these other losses are unnecessary IMHO. They want to make money, but I feel like it's at the sacrifice of the manga.

My point exactly! Quit marketing manga to kids when you have to change it like this. Believe me, they'll still buy, but if you don't "market" to them, it does leave you fairly in the clear because you weren't marketing it for them anyway. It's like kids buying CDs with "mature content" stickers, even though these CDs weren't marketed to them.

[hajhaj.livejournal.com]

The whole Naruto series with Viz pretty much buried itself to target the younger American audience. I can understand after having it pretty much be dummed down for children then throwing in the obvious mature content would be too much of a shock for what people think Naruto really is.
Also, if parents did see that a "barely on the edge on mature" Naruto became what it really is there would be an outrage of complaints. Even if the manga is rated "T", parents still consider their children young at 13.
Viz speaks lies to the American audiences, and telling the truth now would be too much of a mindfuck.

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

True. Some parents don't see 13-year olds as very mature at all (and depending on the 13-year old, I could even agree). I do think that since the characters have "grown up" a bit that adding more mature content isn't as a shock a some people would think it would be. This is a manga where kids as young as 6, but normally at 12, can kill people as a job, and parents don't seem to have a conflict with that.

The sexuality aspect probably upset people more, but the characters are older, and while a few people were complaining that Harry Potter was getting too mature as the characters got older, I didn't hear about censorship of that series and I know kids as young as 5 (they can't read it themselves, but between the movies and audio version it's not hard to still enjoy them) who are in love with it.

Viz speaks lies to the American audiences, and telling the truth now would be too much of a mindfuck.

Good point. Like I said though, you would think as the characters got older then it wouldn't be as bad, but it seems to be getting more censored.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

Major failure. 'Cause sexism is so much less offensive than penis jokes, dontcha know.

[sp-kathrine.livejournal.com]

I wasn't even getting sexism from it until someone else pointed it out. I was just too busy thinking: "He doesn't even look like a girl" to realize it was poking fun at girls in general. So the humor and blatant sexism was lost on me. At least the original keeps women out of it, and just takes a jab at his masculinity. *sighs*

[zelos22.livejournal.com]

heh... im not surprised.

[000-hester-000.livejournal.com]

Fail, but no big surprise. Viz does a lot of irritating things with their translations, but I also think that a fair deal of them, this one included, are because they're between a rock and a hard place. Of course, I'm not Viz, thank God, so given the context I snickered after writing hard place.

On the one hand, like hi_no_neko and hajhaj said, they kinda have to cater to their audience (and their audience's parents) and cover their asses. I mean, one of the things people slammed Harry Potter for was something like "encouraging children to disobey rules." Imo, society seems to be moving more and more into a HOMG THINK OF TEH CHILLUNZ!!1 stance, and since lawlsuits are America's favorite way of getting things done.... And yes, I'm sure that they do have to be careful to keep within their rating.

But on the other hand... since when do books come with ratings anyway? Sure, I can definitely see why they're a concern for manga, given the whole "graphic hur hur hur novels" thing, but I can't help but think that those sorts of ratings ought to apply only to images, not words.

It's not something Viz can do anything about, but it is a good indicator of how weird society is. I mean, seriously... I read a book for eighth grade in public school that had child prostitutes in it (and referred to them as whores), but kids in the same age range can't read penis jokes? That's kinda fucked up.

Although I do think we should all have a moment of silence now for all the kiddies who only ever watched the dub, then discovered the Naruto fandom. Extra moment of silence for all the obnoxious, 'look at how manly I am' boys who idolized any male character, then found out what uke meant.

...No, actually I'm just kidding. I WANT A TAPE OF THEIR REACTIONS TO PLAY OVER AND OVER.

[skyemarie.livejournal.com]

i'm not surprised. i expected that it would be censored. think about it, the target demographic in the us for the naruto manga are preteens and teens. so i'm thinking an abundance of penis jokes would not have gone over well at all. i am disappointed but as i said, not surprised.

[raisel.livejournal.com]

...SO DOES THIS MEAN THAT WHEN KONOHAMARU DOES HIS SAI X SASUKE SEXY JETSU... WILL THAT BE CHANGED AS WELL?





Its my favourite bit in the manga :(

[estrella-blanca.livejournal.com]

WTF VIZ.

WTF.