Chapter 588 is up!

[yah-bish-yah.livejournal.com]

Link: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/588

Comments

[0mega19x.livejournal.com]

And for those who can't get mangareader to work... here it is on MangaPanda (http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/588)!

[mangacrack.livejournal.com]

Christmas is Coming?

(but WHY can't Itachi answer the fucking question for once? Naruto aren't holding the wisdom of life!)

[shiyaki-chan.livejournal.com]

LOL, that's what I thought as well, when I read 'advent*

[gabzillaz.livejournal.com]

Dear Itachi,

You suck.

No Love.

Me.

[verduister.livejournal.com]

Having taken a look at the Japanese script, I prefer mangateers' translation. It should be "I can't forgive Konoha, even if you do!" (and not "I can forgive you but I can never forgive Konoha!")

What happened to Itachi's "I have something to tell you after the battle" ?? >.>

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

He told Sasuke to hope for Naruto.

[mangacrack.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the better translation. It makes way more sense now.

[shinigami002.livejournal.com]

DAMN IT! Why does Kishi always switch plotlines when it is about to get juicy! When the hell are we finally going to learn about Shinsui and Tobi?

FOR GOD'S SAKE, ITACHI, EXPLAIN SHIT TO SASUKE BEFORE HE LOSES HIS REMAINING MARBLES.

[subieko.livejournal.com]

Madara is turning into a Final Fantasy villain. The 'Final Advent' thing just puts me in mind of Sephiroth for some reason. Also the 5 Kages aren't as good as Madara thinks in my opinion, Oonoki was the one coming up with all the plans and being all 'pull yourselves together'.

Itachi, and this manga, have disappointed me again! WHY must he leave whatever-it-is to Naruto? What is so great about having Naruto punch Sasuke until Sasuke is happy again? Also, Naruto patently cannot explain why Itachi forgives Konoha. Only Itachi can do that. This is starting to feel like Kishimoto can't think of a reason why Itachi has done half the things he did and is avoiding giving any explanations.

Also I feel that really the IDEAL person to talk about the massacre, hatred of Konoha, etc. with Sasuke is, y'know Itachi. Because HE WAS THERE. He's the only one around who really knows what happened. And also he has much more emotional stake in this than Naruto, who although he knows about the massacre, is still an outsider to it.

I think an actually reasonable answer from Itachi might be something like, eh...maybe 'I blame the Elders/Hokage who planned the massacre, not the citizens of Konoha who had nothing to do with it'. (senior_witch, I know that you feel the citizens are also to blame, but I think that depends on whether the ghettoization actually happened...and also they still wouldn't be AS guilty as the Elders/Hokage in my personal opinion). Or maybe even the more vague 'not everyone in Konoha is evil; getting revenge on all of them indiscriminently wouldn't be right either'. I feel like Kishimoto could definitely think of SOMETHING for Itachi to say here...

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

I must admit that I had to reread the chapter to find Sasuke's question. (You are talking about "why do you still have to protect Konoha?") For me it was natural that Itachi "forgives" Konoha - he still does not see clearly what's wrong about it, so there's nothing to forgive. Itachi still thinks that what he did was right - not what he did to Sasuke, but what he did to his family. So it also makes sense that he won't tell details to Sasuke.

What I expected: Some information on Danzou's role. The revelations on Kabuto showed more of his evilness - I think his role is more complicated, and probably Itachi was betrayed in a way similar to the way Kabuto was betrayed... but then it's a fictional story, and Kishimoto can make up whatever he likes.

[subieko.livejournal.com]

Even if Itachi doesn't think Konoha is guilty, I still think that should just be stated. I'm looking at this from a writing perspective here as well, and it just seems really sloppy to me to just...never address this. There's only so longer you can have a character be mysterious and/or silent on a topic before it starts to seem really awkward.

I really, really doubt that ANYONE'S role was 'complicated', just given the course of the manga so far. Well, okay, that's not quite true. The role might be convoluted--some of the plans in this manga make me think that ninjas have never heard of that thing where a straight line is the shortest distance between two points. But complicated in terms of, I don't know, moral issues or motivations...I'm not saying it's impossible but neither am I expecting it.

We've also never seen complex planning from Danzou before. Off the top of my head, he has: 1. told that salamander dude to kill some children (Pain and friends), 2. turned some children into a personal squad of assassins, 3. tried to brainwash the entire Kage meeting, apparently forgetting that sensor ninja exist, 4. wandered over to some orphanage to steal children for some vaguely established reason. He just doesn't seem like a very subtle person to me.

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

I wrote quickly without much thoughts about the best word. "Complicated" is not in the moral sense, nor subtle as in "good at planning and hiding one's true intentions". I just think that we should learn that there were some manipulations from his side behind the massacre, and that he longed for power in the form of a couple of Sharingans on his arm, and Shisui's eye. We know this, already, of course, but I'd like to know more about it. (And, somehow he managed to hide this from the rest of the administration.)

[subieko.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. Don't we pretty much already know he was manipulating stuff? Or did I just imagine that that was canon because I've been assuming it so long.

Also, I feel like there may be no more relevant details to get...like...the answer may literally be 'Danzou is a bad person who wants eyeball powers. Sarutobi and co never noticed all his trickiness because...they just didn't.' I mean yes, I would love a more detailed/coherent explanation, but at the same time...well, this is not my first time reading a shounen manga. XD

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

I think there's one relevant detail that's still missing: Itachi's answer to Naruto's question: Did the Uchiha really plan a coup d'etat?

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

I have found something for you:

Einstein Quote (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=9651482&l=d3dbbf72ab&id=120231014309)

I won't check the manga any more for any evidence that the ghettoization happened or not. I still think that the manga is also about real life, even though it contains some phantastical elements. Questions as "is it allowed to murder people in order to protect the state?" are important. Questions as "is the truth important to achieve peace?" are important. Questions as "who's responsible for the evil in the world?" are important. Of course the manga is directed at twelve-year-old children, but twelve-year-old children are not that stupid any more: they often begin to take an interest in politics, and they deserve to be taken seriously, even though they aren't grown-up yet.

The question whether the ghettoization actually happened is just a detail. It would not be a detail if Konoha was a real place, and the events reported in the manga happened really. Then it would be important to have a close look and look at everyone's individualguilt. Then it would be important to have a close look and say: what exactly happened, what did a person know, what could he or she be reasonably expected to know, what could she or he be reasonably expected to do?

But Konoha is a fictional place, and Kishimoto deals with all these questions in principle. He is free to create a story where really no one had any idea about what was going on, and where therefore it is wrong to blame the ordinary citizens of Konoha. But with this he makes a statement about this kind of situation in the real world.

There is no such thing as collective guilt (this is where Sasuke goes wrong), but also it is problematic to say that the evil things that happened in Konoha are only the responsibility of a few people at the top of the state. (And it's not only the ghettoization - Kabuto's flashback was interesting insofar as it gave us an impression of what else went wrong under Danzou.)

I know more about the debate in Germany, of course, but I have also done some reading about the debate in Japan, which is actually quite similar to the debate in Germany, with some important differences of course. In Germany, the predominant position after WWII was: "it was only a few people at the top who were responsible for the Holocaust and all the other atrocities, we, the ordinary people, had no idea about what was happening, and if we had known about it, we could not do anything about it, and it's just some "collective guilt" you are talking about, and we are ready to feel ashamed because of that "collective guilt", but at the same time we feel a lot of resentment and are angry about it."

This is of course not true. A majority of the people supported Hitler, and the Holocaust could not have happened without that support. The same goes for Japan: The ultranationalist regime could not have kept in power without the support of the majority of the population. It also goes for other places, dictatorships as well as democracies.

So the ghettoization is just a detail. The big question is: who's responsible for the evil that's happening, and "it's some evil people at the top of the administration" is an problematic answer to this.

[shiyaki-chan.livejournal.com]

I won't even say anything about the whole Itachi and Sasuke thing, even though I probably could write entire novels about my opinion.

I... am kind of (very) disappointed in the Kages. Is it just me or are the shinobi becoming weaker and weaker? They're fighting 5 against 1 and are still mostly losing, when Shodaime won by himself against Madara... I wonder how good Minato would have fared against him.

[yah-bish-yah.livejournal.com]

Well, for starters this is a man not even the first hokage could kill (if Tobi really is Madara) Shodaime may have won that particular battle but Madara is still around raging war.

I think they are superior to ninja in the present time but Madara was on a completely different level. He has retained his abilities, he is practically invincible, his chakra is presumably endless. Not to mention he created 25 clones of himself and pit them against the kages. While I wanted them to kick his ass and show him they're made of, the fact they're all still alive is kind of impressive.

[roseetta.livejournal.com]

Last time Itachi had nothing more to say because he was dead he ended up talking for 2 straight months. So, I'm not going to get upset about this chapter. I don't think he's going to just peace out without saying anything. But even I as an Itachi fan found the no regrets thing cold. Especially in front of his bro that adores him. I hope Kishi didn't suddenly remember Itachi can't be the one to help Sasuke and it has to be Naruto. They have to fight. I'm going to be pissed if we don't get Itachi's side of the whole massacre thing, which is why I thought he was brought back in the first place.

Madra is cool, but seems obvious he's got to go. Nobody right now can touch him and Kishi isn't going to kill all the Kages.

[anat-astarte.livejournal.com]

..........

Ok. First, I prefer mangahere's (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c588/) translation. The part where Itachi says "I have no regrets" is translated in mangahere's version as "I no longer have any attachment to this world." The lines about forgiving Itachi/not forgiving Konoha is translated in mangahere's version as "I can't forgive Konoha, even if you do!" These lines make more sense to me, so yeah, I'm preferring this version (even with its minor errors).

I'm thinking, if Itachi essentially turns over the role of changing Sasuke to Naruto, then just how much faith does he have in Sasuke to be his own person? I thought the whole reason he didn't use Shisui's eye to mindcontrol Sasuke was to let Sasuke make his own choices, not turn the power over to Naruto like some changing of the guard, or passing the torch.

For a minute there, I thought Sasuke was going to chop off Itachi's hands to prevent him from breaking the Edo Tensei until he gets the full scoop from Itachi about what went down back in the day with the Konoha Four and their parents. Even Naruto got the story of how he ended up with the fox in his belly so Sasuke should have similar considerations, right? I still have hope we will get something of substance from Itachi, but I have little faith that it will make sense or be executed well.

That said, I liked the refocus back on the battlefield. If nothing else, it buys us (and Kishi?) some time on resolving to resolve the Itachi Issue. Madara is one hot badass villian too, I can keep watching his moves all day. XD The best parts of the fight? Of all the kages, Madara's only real concern is Oonoki- of course, this sets up Oonoki's death quite nicely, as is the way of this manga to sacrifice the old people to make way for the younger generation. The other best part? Raikage is again all up on Tsunade XD If Jiraiya and Dan stay dead I'm rooting for a Raikage/Hokage match up! XDDD

So, Susanoo can be stopped? With a rock technique? Huh, who woulda thunk it? Of course, rock people can fly so...nevermind it still doesn't make sense to me.

Haha, Tsunade has become the Duracell Bunny to the Tuchikage's "last attack."

"..thanks to the lightning water dragon bullet." (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c588/15.html) Is that a heart I see at the end of this sentence? New fic idea: Five Speculations About How the Mizukage Got Her Heart Tattoo XDD

Is it just me, or does Susanoo's Perfect Form look like Mumm-Ra from Thundercats? Bring it on, sexy mane man Madara let's see whatcha got!