Naruto 604 Discussion: Team Minato Parallels and Kakashi's relationship to his students

[sidesmile.livejournal.com]

I posted a couple comments in the discussion thread, but wanted to delve a little deeper on Naruto chapter 604. Particularly on the Team Minato/Team 7 parallels as well as Kakashi specifically, particularly in his relationship with Sakura all this time. I'll put my thoughts under the cut as not to spoil.



The chapter's made me think so much with the comparisons with Team Minato and Team 7 (Kishi really loves his parallels.) Particularly with Kakashi's part in Rin's death. The reason I suspect it really is Rin he kills is that possibly this could be one of the reasons why he treats Sakura the way he does. Kakashi has never been a great teacher to his students as a whole. He's neglected Sakura the most as a teacher, but he's also the most protective of her at the same time. I think it's pretty obvious he sees Rin in Sakura. Also possibly seeing Obito in Naruto, and himself in Sasuke, he treats them accordingly which he gives personal training to Sasuke not just because of his abilities.  And keep in mind when he's lecturing Sasuke over the Chidori, he tells him that it's power to used to protect those he cares about most, not against those closest to him (and now we know it's out of his experience.)

And I read it somewhere else--but someone also pointed out this: For Team Minato, Minato was always a little too late in regards to saving his students despite being the Yellow Flash. That's not saying it's his fault especially since the team split after Kakashi went Jounin. He can't always be there to help his students. But despite Kakashi always being late for his meeting with his student, he always comes at the right moment to save them (especially in regards to Sakura's safety....on top of the hospital, when Sakura goes after him alone, etc)

Thoughts?

Comments

[tucuxi.livejournal.com]

I think it would be really, really hard NOT to see the parallels between Team 7 and Team Minato, especially in Kakashi's shoes: how much more obvious could it be?

I wonder if his identifying with Sasuke made him a less effective mentor. If he thought "this is how his mind works, because this is how mine works" that could seriously interfere in giving advice and understanding how Sasuke will react to events/information. Assuming you know someone better than you do can be dangerous because of the preconceptions you bring with it. If he'd assumed Sasuke wasn't like him, and tried to reason with him differently, might that have made a difference? We'll never know.

I sort of want to go back and watch early interactions between Sakura and Kakashi. I think by the end of the time-skip, she presents less of a mirror to Rin, because she's not just a medic-nin, she's mastered Tsunade's chakra-condensation-strength, and is clearly able to take care of herself. But when they're younger, who knows. And Naruto :: Obito is just -- well. Painful, I'd imagine.


It is interesting that even as Kakashi hasn't been the most effective teacher, he does always get there on time when one of them is in mortal danger. (He doesn't quite get there on time for everything that ever happens to them, since he totally didn't manage to stop Sasuke from leaving the village.)

It's particularly odd compared to Minato-sensei, whose students clearly adored him, but who has twice been too late to prevent the death of one of his students. I mean, really, a 33% survival rate is not a good thing, even during wartime.

[sidesmile.livejournal.com]

That's interesting that you say that him identifying with Sasuke made him a less effective mentor. I do think Kakashi believed in him too much to make the decision on his own because at the end of the day, Sasuke is still a far different person than a Kakashi and even more fucked up.

I do agree she became less of a mirror to Rin when she is able to handle herself (given that she doesn't let her emotions get in the way too much i.e. when she tried to assassinate Sasuke by herself. I do feel in that sense Kakashi is overcompensating with protecting Sakura as a way to make up to what happened to Rin/not keeping Obito's promise. And like you said, Obito's painful, well, both of them are really. It just makes Naruto and Sakura's relationship with Kakashi just all the more complex and if anything pretty screwed up.

[rika24.livejournal.com]

i've always seen this parallel, even before Kishi started shoving it in our faces. i've always thought that Team Minato was the closest parallel to them, even moreso than the Sannin, but with Kishi's showing of the Chuunin Exams for Obito and the rest it's only made it even more obvious (right down to Kakashi and Gai getting ready to fight only for Obito to but in to try and look cool, then quickly beaten and then Sasuke and Lee getting ready to fight and Naruto getting in the way... granted Kakashi won against Gai while Sasuke lost to Lee... but whatever)

and yeah, i think Kakashi did see Obito in Naruto and Rin in Sakura (and don't forget Minato in Naruto as well, double guilt wammy there alone). Remember the way Kakashi looked when Zabuza was about to kill Naruto after he was able to save Kakashi from the water prison? the only other time we've seen that look was when Kakashi went after the Iwa nin that caused Obito to get crushed by the boulder.

and Kakashi was always keeping a very close watch over Sakura during part I.

and i love that you bring up the irony of Minato and Kakashi when their students are in danger. Minato, the Yellow Flash, was never fast enough to get there in time for his students. Kakashi, always late, is always there when they need him to save their lives (though Kakashi was always unable to save his old team... we'll have to wait to find out the details about Rin but i'm calling it genjutsu or accidental in Rin's case)

oh, and about Kakashi not being able to keep Sasuke from leaving, Kakashi was on a mission at the time, the moment he returned and was informed of the situation he turned down his next mission in order to go after them. had it not rained i think Kakashi might have been able to catch up and capture Sasuke.

[sidesmile.livejournal.com]

Man, Kakashi is just a really tragic person in general. Everyone he loves dies (or in this case with Obito he thought he did.) And then he gets a group of kids that remind him of all those he loves. I liked Kakashi before, but I love him now just because of all this.

I'm definitely really curious to see how/why he chidori'd her in the first place. Genjutsu? Trick? Rin was a spy? Etc. Because Obito said that Kakashi let Rin die rather than he killed Rin. And during his death scene he said he failed to protect her. It could be anything at this point.

[sinemoras09.livejournal.com]

I think it was accidental. Someone brought up how Kakashi accidentally killed Haku (although Haku had jumped in the way), maybe something similar happened to Rin. Like, maybe Kakashi was up against a really difficult foe, and Rin thought Kakashi would get killed, so she jumps in the way to protect Kakashi...and then Kakashi accidentally kills her.

I can't wait to read the next chapter :D

[sidesmile.livejournal.com]

Or even how Sakura threw herself between Sasuke and Naruto during the fight in the hospital and almost got herself killed until Kakashi saved ehr.

Me too. Since this is Obito's perspective, I guess we won't learn to much about Rin. I've always wanted to know what her last name was. XD

[wings-on-fire.livejournal.com]

Why do you say Kakashi was always there to save his students? I could name two instances when Kakashi failed.
The Valley of the End battle between Sasuke and Naruto would have ended in tragedy if Sasuke hadn't decided to 'do things his way'. When Kakashi arrived, Sasuke was gone and Naruto knocked down cold.
The second instance is when Team 7 minus Naruto meet after Sasuke had killed Danzou. Sasuke would have killed Sakura (with Kakashi watching) if Naruto hadn't come on time.

[sidesmile.livejournal.com]

I think more so pre-time skip (and more so with Naruto and Sakura, especially the latter). He did save Sakura from getting chirdori'd by Sasuke the first time though.

Nonetheless, it's still something to point out in comparison to Minato.

[sidesmile.livejournal.com]

Another comparison to point out in regards to promises.

Naruto promising Sakura he would bring Sasuke back.
Kakashi promising Obito that he would protect Rin.

[sidesmile.livejournal.com]

Well of course not her personality, but her position in the group. Sakura is far more aggressive than Rin. Kalashi does tend to baby her (and in turn neglect her as a teacher) more so than the others.