So I was thinking...

[sapphireluna.livejournal.com]

1. Remember after hearing Neji's tale of woe Naruto said ' When I'm hokage, I'll change the Hyuuga clan!' ?
But...Why in the world doesn't the current Hokage (or the 4th or the 3rd ) do anything about the Branch family thing? If Naruto intends to help, why doesn't Tsunade? The 3rd and fourth knew of it too. Why didn't they do anything? Maybe the Hyuuga are a powerful clan, but the Hokage has more power than them and can order them to stop this nonsense. ;/ If I were the Hokage, I would say" WTF, dude? All my people are treated equally!" Screw this protecting Byakugan thing. Bad guys could just kidnap a Main House kid and make that curse seal completely useless. o_O To actually make that effective, they should all bear it.

2. Why is everyone still hanging out with their teacher after becoming chuunin? Sure, they bonded, they're friends. It's been said that Kakashi had never passed a team before team 7, and that Kurenai was a new jounin so 8 was her first team. But Gai and Asuma, for exemple, they should have teached other genins before Team10/Gai, right? Yet we never hear of those.

Also, now that everyone's chuunin, shouldn't those teachers be teaching new genins? Like, Neji is a jounin, yet Gai still "leads" him, even though they're the same rank now. Heck, why doesn't Neji teach new genins? Or lead his own team? We love our teams and would like to keep them together, but is that really how reality is?

Comments

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

#1. The Hokage is an elected position, Tsuande could be replaced by the council and I would imagine that the council likes the Hyuuga's as they are? And The Main house is very powerful (don't know if the Branch house is) so if they were forced to abandon that family tradition they may decide to go against the village or withdraw political support.

#2. Part of the reason genin are put with various Jounin instructors, I think, is that they work well as a team, their skills compliment one another. And as such they would still work very well as teams once the genin become chuunin. For missions it's common for chuunin to be lead by a Jounin. As for previous teams, Maybe they didn't bond a great deal with them, maybe they're on other teams, hell they could all be dead for all we know. And maybe there weren't enough kids that to need them to be reasigned as instructors. Or perhaps their skill set is not appropriate for the kids that graduated this year. Look at Kurenai, her team is mainly made up of people with detection, tracking skills. This is where some of her skills lie as well. So maybe no such kids have graduated this term, or they're with another Jounin Sensei

[sapphireluna.livejournal.com]

If the Hyuuga clan went against Konoha, I'm guessing Hinata and Neji would become the next Sasuke and Itachi, eh? Then again, no. If Neji tried to wipe out the entire clan, he'd be killed in an instand o.o

[senbonzakura77.livejournal.com]

Hinata and Neji would become the next Sasuke and Itachi, eh?

Rather a scary thought..

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

if they decided to go against Konoha I think most Branch members would either fight with them or be killed. We don't really know which has more of Neji and Hinata's loyalty. The family or the village.

[dailysky.livejournal.com]

@1. is it really? i thought that shortly before jiraiya and naruto went to find tsunade it was pretty much an appointed position. they tried to appoint jiraiya but he refused so they chose tsunade. i mean appointed as in "oh, this person should be hokage next," — i don't remember any panels of a council voting a person in. then again, that was a while ago, and i just may not remember it.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

well I don't mean a vote like in an election so much as discussing it amongst themselves and deciding who they want to appoint

[artisthistorian.livejournal.com]

Well I think that the reason none of the previous hokage's have done anything is because they really can't. Even Naruto wouldn't have the political power/right to do anything. What a family does on its own is their business as long as they aren't causing trouble. Because if they acted it would cause a riot, as it would in todays society. Privacy is a key to a stable government (in my opinion)
As to the second question...I guess its just becuase they have bonded and supposidly been through live or death situations with. Things like that probably happen in the military too. (But if I were on Kakashi's team I'd hang out with him but for other reasons ^.^)
It just wouldn't be fun to the plot to take away the jounin from the main characters XP

Hahaha thats the longest comment I've ever written ^.^ Those are just my thoughts.

[numara.livejournal.com]

1.) It was:

A.) Probably never brought to their attention.

or

B.) They have no power of it.

even though whoever is currently hokage is supposed to be the most powerful ninja in the village and make all of the important decisions, there's still the council. so if say, Tsunade wanted to do anything about it, she'd still have to get permission from them because it's about something that would affect a WHOLE clan. also, because the Hyuuga are so powerful, there would probably be at least a few of them on the council, and if they were apart of the main family, i assume that they wouldn't want to give up the power they had over branch family.

i think that it was different for Naruto because he was making a genuine promise to Neji to actually change things; and we know that once he makes a promise, he almost always keeps it - regardless of who's rules he breaks in the process.

i wonder why only the hyuugas have the seal, though. i'd imagine that something like that would have been way more necessary for like, the uchihas, since everyone seems to want the sharingan.

2.) i don't think that they have to lead new teams: if the team is successful and everyone works well together, why mess with a good thing? also, i think more people would be upset if kishi just started giving the teachers new students. the teams are something that we're used to. i know that i probably wouldn't like a new "team 7/kakashi" more than the one we already have.

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

A.) Probably never brought to their attention.
They would HAVE to know. It's not exactly a good position to be in to not know that a large portion of your military forces can be dropped in seconds flat


i wonder why only the hyuugas have the seal, though. i'd imagine that something like that would have been way more necessary for like, the uchihas, since everyone seems to want the sharingan.
but everyone wants the Byakugan also. My guess is it has to do with the size of the family?

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

damn I meant to use this icon for this post given the mention of Naruto's promises

[numara.livejournal.com]

hmm, i see your point. i'd concede then that it was probably never just a big enough priority and that the hokage alone still wouldn't have the power to change it without at least half of the council backing her. and then that's where naruto comes: he cares enough to stand up to the council and change it regardless of what they say.

My guess is it has to do with the size of the family?

this has to be it, because when it boils down to importance, the sharingan is just, if not more, important and powerful than the byakugaan. but i mean, since kakashi was able to receive obito's eye so easily, i would imagine that they would want to make it a priority to make sure that it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

[gwinna]

Regarding the Hyuuga... the Hokage is probably afraid that if s/he meddles, they might turn against the village as the Uchiha almost did. I don't think Naruto would have any more power to change it, except insofar as he has some influence on Hinata and Neji, since the change must come from within. It would make most sense for every Hyuuga to have the curse seal. I remember that's what happened in "Rosemary For Remembrance" by Sintari.

Regarding the teams... I've thought about that before and it's just one of those things in Naruto that make absolutely no sense. Another thing is: how do they make sure that exactly nine students pass the test to become genin? The jounin seem to decide this on their own without communicating with each other, so why couldn't four or five jounin have decided their teams were worthy of passing, or only one? Just one more thing that requires suspension of disbelief...

[demondreams.livejournal.com]

More then nine pass the test to become Genin, there are at least 8 teams that were assigned at the beginning, at three apiece that's 24 Genin assigned in Iruka's class alone. There may be more with other teachers. As for the Jounin I think that's a fail safe against people being passed from the academy before they're actually ready.

[gwinna]

I thought that, although all the genin in the class were formed into teams, only three teams passed to become genin, and the three that passed this time around were teams 7, 8, and 10. Wasn't that the whole point of the bell test, which Kakashi said had a 66% fail rate or something?

That could provide the answer for why Kakashi and the others don't take on new genin teams, though, because if only three teams pass a year, there are probably enough jounin that they haven't needed to take new teams yet.

[jade-wynds.livejournal.com]

I think that 1 has been fairly well covered. As for 2, I don't think that Kishimoto is a very smart man (which is why his supposedly genius characters seem to do such dumb things), so I honestly don't think he ever thought about it. He just took what he needed for the story and neglected to build the rest of the world.

[oceanica.livejournal.com]

I would say as for why there haven't been new teams -- it's because at this point in the game, Kishimoto can't introduce that many new characters. It's a story structure reason rather than an in-universe one.

[proudcockatrice.livejournal.com]

I'd say that keeping the teams together may be a combination of two things:

1. There are sufficient jounin in the village to support more than a single year of teams. Consider how many unnamed and barely named characters occur in group scenes.

2. The village is in the middle of something that can be considered a military emergency. It is more important to have teams that have worked together before, and work *well* together than to pull apart a functional team to teach some genin. Any way you slice it, whether the genin are trained or not, there is not a single part of this war that's going to be below an A rank mission, and genin don't do A ranks.

Also, consider that Asuma's team *does* function without him, as he ends up teamed with Kotetsu and Izumo when he dies. This may have something to do with the fact that Shikamaru is a brilliant strategist, and more than able to take that responsibility. The other teams don't have that kind of tactics genius behind them, and they *do* still need an experienced jounin to lead them.

Just my 2 cents.

[proudcockatrice.livejournal.com]

As I read this over, I realise the other glaringly obvious thing:

If there are new teams, we're not going to see them. We see Konohamaru's team, in passing, because he's a character from before the timeskip. We have no reason to *care* about new genin teams, and Kishi's got no plot to support showing them.

[senior-witch.livejournal.com]

To 1)

I have read the comments above about the real power and position of the Hokage, and they make a lot of sense. So what I want to add: My impression is that the political system of Konoha is rather chaotic - maybe it began as a loose association of clans, with a Hokage at the top (well, at least originally, when Hashirima was elected) but with no clear rules about how to elect the next Hokage, or any rules about what exactly his position was. Probably he ruled maily because he was well respected because of his fighting prowess and his charisma.

There was no clear rule about what the clans might do within themselves. artisthistorian has mentioned that privacy is important, which it is, but according to our modern understanding it does not allow for child abuse - which is what is done to Neji.

It is important to remember that "Naruto" is set in a society that is changing. A lot has happened since Madara and Hashirima fought each other, and a lot will happen... When the village is a loose association of clans, it is understandable that the Hokages won't interfere with inter-clan affairs. Also the position of the Elders is rather strange to me - how did they get into this position? IIRC they were the team mates of the Third Hokage, and he kept them as counsellors, and then they remained in this position, even though they have no real formal power, and it is no where defined what they can do or not do.

And the Hokage herself or himself? My impression is that his/her main job is 1.) management and administration and organizing things, without any real political power and 2.) to fight against overwhelming enemies and sacrifice themselves if necessary.

Also, my impression is that the values of the world of Naruto are changing. In the time of Madara and Hashirima it would be considered natural that the clan is more important than the individual, and that people, particular younger siblings and their offspring, have to sacrifice themselves if necessary - just look at Madara's younger brother. The Hokages of Konoha have never really questioned this, or seen any injustice in it, so they did nothing about it. It were family affairs...

One of the things that make Naruto interesting to me is that we get different systems of value in one story - "my clan first" as it is practised by the Hyuugas or the Uchihas, where everyone has to be ready to sacrifice himself for the family (this is also what Sasuke is doing!), "my village first" which is the motto of Danzou and the Elders when they force Itachi to sacrifice himself and his clan, or when they suggest that Naruto should be kept safe inside the village, forgetting that he is not only the kyuubi but also a human being. (Though with his not helping defend the village Danzou has betrayed the principle. Well, people like him tend to defend rather their "idea of the village" than the village itself.)

And then there are people as Jiraya or Naruto, who value individual bonds and who care for everyone.

[youkofox.livejournal.com]

Playing Neji myself, I'd love to debate this topic and have a few theories~ <3

1) Naruto can make all the promises he'd like. I can't see how it would be done with the Hokage's power alone. No matter what's 'right', it's whatever is best for the village as a whole. So the Hyuuga have an f'ed up version of safety precautions: who cares? It works, is effective, that's all that matters.

For the Hyuuga to change, it would take a lot more influence. Neji could openly oppose this when the time comes and if Hinata succeeds Hyuuga, there would be two powerful influences. Combined with the Hokage's will and an alternate solution for the bloodline's protection, there shouldn't be much for resistance other than the physical 'oh my god, we're going to change a huge ass tradition suddenly; everyone hop to' stressing, tedious labour and/or sealing/paperwork that goes into whatever method is sorted out to replace the current system.

Thinking about it, the Cursed Seal of Hyuuga is perfectly sound aside from the little rift between the families over the power concerns. If it wasn't for the control the Main House could exert over Branch Family members, I don't think it'd be nearly as large of an issue. Sure, yeah, the initial sealing's probably going to be painful, but that would end there.

2)As for the 'teams' thing, they are group teams, now. Team 7 isn't Team 7- it's Team Kakashi. They are all just shinobi working together in a squad that just works and don't necessarily have the student-teacher relationships anymore. Neji is stilla young, and probably inexperienced shinobi. As I figure it, he either elected to stay on the team himself (because think about it, what sort of chaos would Team Gai erupt into without him?) or he lacks enough field experience to set about and teach his own cute little team of Genin.

Not all Jounin teach their own team anyway. This is either optional, has a very specific set of requirements, or some Jounin abilities are just put to far better use doing whatever else for the village's sake.

Of course, all of this could be explained away by the usual 'plot-holes' (such as why Hinata as a shinobi doesn't possess a seal and completely undermines the reason behind the goddamn thing) but then everything just falls apart and is generally inconsistent and that just isn't nearly as much fun ;D <3

[sapphireluna.livejournal.com]

Then...I'm hoping that when/if Hinata becomes the new head of the Clan,being the nce sweet personr she is, she'll abolish this curse thing. Then again, is the word of the Clan leader absolute or does she/he have to go through the 'Hyuuga council' as well?

Sure sucks when your power isn't for real o_O

[youkofox.livejournal.com]

I think she will try if she does succeed the clan. That girl won't have a heart of stone at all and Neji will definitely support her. He seems to have gained quite a bit of a reputation in the clan itself judging by own particular databook translation. Always wanted to write a story about some major upheaval, but I need more information I think. Would be quite complex...

As for whether or not it's possible for Hinata to become Heir again, I think it is. We'll see though- as we have no idea really what's happened in Hyuuga since the first full season.

late comment is super late

[xevochic.livejournal.com]

So the Hyuuga have an f'ed up version of safety precautions: who cares? It works, is effective, that's all that matters.
You must be a very interesting Neji mun if you think like this.

Just because something "works" and is "effective" doesn't mean that it should be used. For example, slavery worked and was very effective for the economy, but it was a horrible, disgusting thing to do. That's why it was abolished. The Branch family is nothing but a group of slaves and toy soldiers to the House family within the Hyuuga clan.

Neji is a genius in the Hyuuga clan (way smarter and stronger than Hinata, mind you) and yet he can never become the leader (or anything but a Branch member) simply because he was placed into a "lower category". Hell, it's not even about "whose blood is purer" since Hinata and Neji's fathers were twins; it's simply "because I said so" and it's a forking horrible idea.


Thinking about it, the Cursed Seal of Hyuuga is perfectly sound aside from the little rift between the families over the power concerns.
I think you're forgetting 99.9% of Neji's story. If the Main House is in trouble, the Branch House is there to be the scapegoat. They have to die so that the Main House can be faultless. It was one of the reasons Daddy!Neji opted to die in his brother's stead, because he was "supposed to" as it was his duty as a Branch member.


If it wasn't for the control the Main House could exert over Branch Family members, I don't think it'd be nearly as large of an issue.
But that doesn't make any sense. That's like saying, "if it wasn't for the fact that it would cause death, I don't think that murdering someone would be that large of an issue". The seal and House system was created for the purpose of control; so yeah, if it wasn't for control it wouldn't be an issue, because the system wouldn't exist.


Sure, yeah, the initial sealing's probably going to be painful, but that would end there.
But it will be painful yet again when a House member a)decides that a Branch member is thinking bad things and activates the curse to cause intense pain or b)decides that the Branch member needs to be a toy solider and destroys their brain--the original purpose of the seal. Also, IIRC, the curse only fades when the brain dies. Meaning that even if Neji gets his "rightful place in the Hyuuga world", he is forever branded with that swastika.


why Hinata as a shinobi doesn't possess a seal and completely undermines the reason behind the goddamn thing
It's because she's a House member. The seal is reserved only for the Branch members. Hinata can be a kunoichi all she wants, but Neji would be the one who'd have to sacrifice himself to save her if needed. Why? Because she is a Main House member and he is a Branch House member. Remember he got his seal on her birthday.


Also...
or he lacks enough field experience to set about and teach his own cute little team of Genin.
LMAO The mental images of Neji trying to test a bunch of post-academy kids are hilarious. I think he would just end up failing everyone like Kakashi originally did. XD

Not late at all! (Cause mine was late ;D)

[youkofox.livejournal.com]

Just because something "works" and is "effective" doesn't mean that it should be used. For example, slavery worked and was very effective for the economy, but it was a horrible, disgusting thing to do. That's why it was abolished. The Branch family is nothing but a group of slaves and toy soldiers to the House family within the Hyuuga clan.

No, that definitely doesn't mean it should be used- only that it is. Perhaps it will be abolished, but as for right now, interfering in such a large issue is like asking Hyuuga to have a clan war- rather one-sided and dangerous. I don't mean to offend and say that it, by any means, is right at all. It certainly isn't. I'm just saying that politically, trying to change it would cause a massive uproar that's unneeded and unnecessary if the system works as well as it does now.

I think you're forgetting 99.9% of Neji's story. If the Main House is in trouble, the Branch House is there to be the scapegoat. They have to die so that the Main House can be faultless. It was one of the reasons Daddy!Neji opted to die in his brother's stead, because he was "supposed to" as it was his duty as a Branch member.

Yes, I agree the Branch House is there for the convenience of the Main House and was what Neji was bitter about it until he found out Hizashi died because he wanted to protect his brother and his family- not because it was his duty as a Branch Family member. He still likely isn't happy with the system at all, but his anger has grown much less pronounced. I'd dearly love an update on the Hyuuga....

The seal and House system was created for the purpose of control; so yeah, if it wasn't for control it wouldn't be an issue, because the system wouldn't exist.

The seal itself was made and used to protect the Byakugan. The control that comes with it seems unnecessary in that regard alone- though yes, I understand what you're saying about the House system.

But it will be painful yet again when a House member a)decides that a Branch member is thinking bad things and activates the curse to cause intense pain or b)decides that the Branch member needs to be a toy solider and destroys their brain--the original purpose of the seal.

I think that takes it a little far. People are prone to abuse the power they have, certainly -especially when it's over other people- but I don't think Main House family members turn at every mishap in an intent to fry a few brains. I really don't think the seal is used that often, or someone somewhere would have tried to do something. His case was pretty unique.

It's because she's a House member. The seal is reserved only for the Branch members. Hinata can be a kunoichi all she wants, but Neji would be the one who'd have to sacrifice himself to save her if needed.

Perhaps it is, but theoretically speaking, it's the Branch Family that has the most risk of being kidnapped, tortured, experimented on since it seems as though they're the only ones that become shinobi. Hiashi doesn't have a headband, and we haven't seen Hanabi in the Academy. Main Family's relatively safe back in Konoha with a whole clan that possesses the Byakugan. Following that, Hiashi gave up on Hinata and sent her off into the Academy and under Kurenai. As a kunoichi putting the secrets of the Byakugan at risk for stepping foot out of the village, she should be sealed. That's strictly my own theory, however. That's where I come from on that point.

Wee~! Okay, I apologize if it seems as though I'm trying to offend or that I'm insulting Neji's character at all. I'm trying to be as objective as possible with this without the influence of just loving Neji in general ♥ Though it probably doesn't seem like it now. Conflict breeds creativity and I'd love more than my own thoughts on this in particular.
Thank you~ <3

[pippins-nose.livejournal.com]

2) Basically I think Kishi just doesn't want to break up his teams XD
But I did always imagine that there are plenty of other jounin teachers and teams, we just don't see them because the story is only following characters in Naruto's life.